Highest Self Podcast 499: The Science of Attraction + Dating As A Conscious Person w/ Rosie Acosta


Noticing that the type of people you’re attracted to has changed recently? Let’s break down the science behind why this is!

In this week’s episode, my dear friend, Rosie Acosta and I are diving into the science of attraction. (Disclaimer: this is OUR science of attraction that you can’t find anywhere else ????) Rosie is an expert in attraction after having been in a beautiful 20-year relationship and I love exploring this topic with her as a newly single spiritual woman as I am re-navigating what it means to date as a conscious person in the modern age. You’ll be getting a nice taste of our mixed perspectives throughout this conversation.

In this episode, we talk about dating apps and how they only reveal the smallest percentage of who someone truly is and how they can be de-humanizing, how birth control pills can impact your attraction towards someone, specific qualities that both males and females are drawn to, how to give yourself permission to evolve in a relationship, our beliefs around marriage, and SOUL much more around relationships and attraction.

If you’re like me and wonder why we are attracted to certain people and not others, and why our type changes as we mature and heal – you’re going to adore this episode (regardless of what your relationship status is!) Plus you’ll feel like a fly on the wall listening to two spiritual besties have an extremely unfiltered and hilarious conversation.

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Intro + Outro Music: Silent Ganges by Maneesh de Moor

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Episode #499: The Science of Attraction + Dating As A Conscious Person with Rosie Acosta
By Sahara Rose

[00:00] Sahara

So much of attraction is related to scent. So, there have been studies about women on birth control pills. And when you’re on birth control pill, your body thinks that it’s, essentially, pregnant, it’s not looking to procreate anymore. So, the scents that you’re attracted to, in a man, shift into someone with a more similar immune system to you. But when you’re not on the pill and you ovulate, you’re attracted to someone with the opposite immune system to you because that’s going to make your child have the strongest immune system.

So, a lot of, like, when you meet someone and you’re just so attracted to them and you love their smell, is because your immune systems are polar opposites. 

So, in this study, they found that women were meeting people, dating, getting married to these men, and then getting off birth control to get pregnant, and then, all of a sudden, they couldn’t stand the scent of their husbands, they’re like “Something about him, I just don’t want to be near him”, and it was leading to divorce, that they, through this research, they kind of renamed birth control pill, the divorce pill, because these women were choosing men that had similar immune systems to them, because they were on the pill when they met these men. Then, when they got off of the pill, and they were actually ovulating, it was similar, so their bodies were having this adverse reaction that as it was your family member.

And I think that this is really important because if you’ve only been on birth control the whole time that you’ve known your partner, there actually might be a shift when you come off.


[01:30] Sahara

Welcome to The Highest Self Podcast, my name is Sahara Rose, and on this Podcast, I love taking spiritual concepts and making it modern, fun, grounded, relatable, and I bring on my personal favorite friends.

And today, you’re going to be hearing my best friend in the world, that’s my best friend, real bad bitch, you know, it’s that level.

[01:50] Sahara

So, her and I, honestly, our voice notes could be a podcast. You know those types of relationships where you’re like dropping wisdom all the time, and so, we were like okay, every time we voice note, we’re like “This needs to be a podcast, this needs to be a podcast”, so I’m like “Bitch, you just need to come on the Podcast to make it a podcast!”

[02:07] Sahara

So, today, we’re going to be talking about the science of attraction (and this is our science), this is our form of science that we are co-creating here on the Podcast experience.

But for real, she’s been in a 20-year-long relationship, so, that, to me, is like, I bow down, I don’t know how, guide us.

And for me now, coming out of a 7-year relationship and being single, I’m like “Oh my god, like, what do I not know about and how can I teach myself, like, how to be more wise and intuitive”, but there’s also the people that you’re attracted to, and we have our types.

And I’ve been really pondering, like, why? Why are we attracted to certain people and not others? And how are the people we are attracting to, shifting as we go through a healing journey? That, you may have had your type when you were 20 years old and your self-worth was, like, down in the shitters, you know; and then you might have your type when you are 30 years old and you’re looking for stability; and then you have a type at different stages of your life. So, your type changes with time.

And we also read a lot of books, so we’re not just making it up, so, we’re going to be referencing to a lot of different books that we’ve read and our own personal experience.

[03:16] Sahara

So, without further ado, let’s welcome Rosie Acosta, to The Highest Self Podcast.


[03:21] Rosie

Oh my gosh…

[03:24] Sahara

[sings] – I pretend I’m Latina around her.

[03:32] Rosie

She is, she’s a part of the Latina gang.

[03:34] Sahara

I’m invited to the Taqueria.

[03:38] Rosie

Well, you look Latina, you definitely can pass, for sure! And yeah, [in Spanish].

[03:47] Sahara

[in Spanish]. Okay, so, what makes you your highest self?

[03:51] Rosie

I knew you were going to ask me that, and I was thinking about it while I was driving, and getting irritated with the, like, snippet of traffic that I had, because I was like, you know, I want to get in the zone, I’m about to do this Podcast and I know I’m going to be with you and obviously it’s chill for me, but I was thinking “Okay, I know she’s going to ask this question, she asks it all the time”. 

And I think, the first thing that comes to me is just being honest, right? And that is one of the biggest keys and foundations to our relationship, is, our ability to be honest, and not feeling judged in any way.

And I know that I’ve talked about this before, but one of my favorite teachings from Mark Nepo, he talks about this in the book “Awakening” a lot, and a couple of his other writings, that, when we love somebody, all of who they are, is welcome. And I was thinking about you, I was thinking about us and our relationship, and I really feel that. I know that all of who I am, all the facets, are welcome.

[04:59] Sahara

[singing]. We’re just going to keep referencing songs.

[05:06] Rosie

This is literally what happens all day long! So, yeah, for me, that’s what…

[05:12] Sahara

[singing]. But it’s true, and that’s ultimately what we want in relationships as well. We want to be met in our entirety.

And I’ve realized, for me, in our friendship, it’s like, if I’m being met on such a deep level in my friendships, why would I not desire that in my relationships? 

And I feel like a lot of us women, especially, we compartmentalize.

[05:32] Rosie


[05:33] Sahara

We’re like “Okay, I’m going to have be met in my friendships and get all my needs from all my girls, but in my relationship, whatever, he’s a dumbass, he’s not going to be able to even have this conversation”, so then our standards just go so low and then we’re feeling unfulfilled, we’re feeling unseen, we’re feeling unmet and we’re wondering what else is out there. And it’s a two-way, it’s like, we’re also not being vulnerable and opening ourselves up and having those honest conversations with the men either, so we’re kind of expecting them to show up in this way that we’ve never even opened ourselves up to. So then, we’re in this dynamic that neither of us are feeling met.

[06:04] Rosie

Exactly. Why do you think that is? For you personally, why do you think that you’ve not allowed yourself to be your full self in romantic relationships?

[06:12] Sahara

Oh! Is this therapy? What’s going on here? 

[06:14] Rosie

I’m curious, let’s go deep!

[06:16] Sahara

Let’s go deep! For me, when I tune into that, it’s that – like, for example, having a dad that was very focused on work and drive, that that became my model of men, that men are good providers, they’re good at, you know, being the stability of the family, but am I going to get my emotional needs met from him? No. Like, that’s who I would go to my mom for, who I would tell about my life, and this, and that. 

And I feel like a lot of us, that core wound does come from the father wound, and that father wound is often there because men have been expected to be unemotional, and disconnected, and just be the providers, and they’re doing what they were taught to do by their fathers. 

So, I’ve noticed that, in the past, I was like “Okay, here’s what I need from a man and, like, he needs to meet me emotionally but, like, 60% is good enough”, and then I would get the rest from my girls. And now, I’m like “No, I’m only calling in a true relationship where I can be my full self, where I can be met, where I can learn and not just be in the teacher role”, but that fear comes of “Will I ever find someone to meet me there?”, and I think that’s where a lot of women settle.

[07:18] Rosie

Yeah. They settle in that space of “Well, I’m getting exactly, just enough, like, just enough of what my requirements are, what my worth is, and that’s going to be okay because I don’t actually know that I’ll find somebody that can fulfill all of those”.

Actually, you know, thinking about it, because I always like to look at the paradox, right? I’m like “Okay, yeah, but what’s the opposite of that? What is the opposite of that check-list that I’ve created for my partner? What is the opposite? What is my role in that check-list? What is the check-list that I am going to check off for the other?”, and also, if I’m very rigid in my, not even expectations, in my pre-requisites, in this person, am I then limiting myself to something that, potentially, could be really good for me, right? 

We were talking about this the other day, on the power of, yeah, manifesting your soulmate, or what are the ways that you can manifest those right relationships into your life. And we had this really great voice note dialogue where we went back and forth, and I’ve been thinking about it a lot because I really – look, I love both concepts, right? This idea that we, somehow, can set a fertile ground for us to attract the right partner in our life, you do the work, you’re able to set that ground, that space, for that person, that magical unicorn that you’ve written down and vision-boarded, and listed, to come in. But that the same time, I feel like, one of the biggest issues that I have with that is that, sometimes, what manifestation, sometimes when we go into this ideology, we forget that there’s also action and effort involved. We solely rely on the ability to manifest this person, right?

So, I’m curious for you, if you’ve also been thinking about that or if you’re still on board with what your thesis was at that point, and if you’re comfortable sharing what you thought?

[09:45] Sahara

Sure, yeah. When I was in my early 20s, I, like, drew this picture of my god-man, I shared it on the Podcast, like, these are his qualities, and his age, and his ethnicity, and this is what he does for work, and this is how we spend our weekends, and I’m like “These are all the factors”. And I actually did manifest that, you know. So, it actually, really did work. 

However, now, my list has shifted, and it’s not about that person and who they are, but it’s our dynamic in our relationship. 

And I feel like so many of us, we focus so much on who that person is, what does he do, what does he look like, all of these things, and ultimately, what you’re left in a relationship with, is the dynamic. Is my relationship with you based on the fact that you’re Mexican, or that you are an author, or this, or that? Like, those are factors about you, but it’s not what our relationship is on. Our relationship is on, that you’re able to hold space for me in my toughest times, and that we’re able to have fun together, that we’re able to go deep. And so, now, these are the things that I have written down, but as I go into – like, every single month, I find myself losing and losing those as well, because we can only manifest based on what we know at this moment of time. And as we gain more awareness, as we do more healing work, that thing that I might have been calling in, in January, is, like, totally what I would not be calling in right now, because I have shifted so much. So, now, I’m like, I just trust and surrender to the Universe, God, like, the beings that are creating something so much larger than me, that, whoever’s meant to come into my life, for whatever lesson, will.

I do think there’s the balance, though, of having standards, you know, because I see, sometimes, you can go the other way of like “Well, I’m just in love with this person and love wins”, and it’s like, it’s so easy for us, especially when we’re single, to just, like, want to go back into love and just do whatever we can, and we’re like “Yeah”, you know.

Like, I heard this really good analogy when I went to this workshop, when I was like 24 years old, and it’s always stuck with me of – let’s say you’re really craving sushi, and the sushi restaurant doesn’t open until 6:00PM, but you’re really hungry, and it’s noon. So, you’re driving around and you see this, like, burrito shop, and you’re like “Hey, like, I’m really hungry, I’m just going to get a little snack for now, just to hold me over until the sushi comes”, and you’re like “Okay, I’ll get a burrito, but can you wrap it up in seaweed instead of tortilla?”, and they’re like “Yeah, I guess we could do that”, and it’s like falling apart, and you’re like “Can you also replace the chicken with some, like, salmon sashimi”, they’re like “We don’t have salmon sashimi here”, and you’re like “No, no, we’ll make it work”. And that’s what so many of us do, we’re trying to make the burrito into sushi, and then 6:00PM comes, and we’re so full because we’ve been eating this burrito that we didn’t even really like.

[12:23] Rosie


[12:24] Sahara

And I find so many of us, we’re like “Okay, I’m just going to be in this situationship for now, because I need love, I need intimacy, and it’s just going to hold me off until I meet my guy”. But you’re not looking anymore, you’re not energetically opening up your field anymore. There’s such a different energy when you’re, like, completely single and sovereign on your own, that even when you have someone you’re talking to, that, then, you might have met the person, they may have walked right by you, but your eyes were completely blocked from seeing them.

So, I have found, also, the further I go along on my single journey, I’m like, I will only – it’s like, I’m not going to lower my standards out of, like, the fear of being alone. In fact, I’m finding more and more joy and freedom and, you know, deepening, lessons that I would only learn from being alone. And then, the paradox of that is, there’s never going to be that perfect person, so, eventually, there’s going to be some form of, not settling, but like, compromise.

And I remember before, I was like “I don’t like the word compromise”, because I believe in a win-win situation. And I do, ultimately, think a win-win situation is best, but even in you, and I’m curious for you, in your 20-year now relationship, and he’s such a beautiful man, you’ve shared with me, if you saw him on a dating app, you would not have said yes. So, I’m like “Damn”, like, you know. And it’s like, you just see these 2-dimensional people in their pictures and they’re like “I don’t know, he’s a musician, like, looks like this could work”, and it’s maybe not who you would’ve vibed with in real life.

So, how you see, like, your standards and then this relationship that you’re in now? 

[13:52] Rosie

Yeah. And I love everything that you were saying, and this is one of the reasons why I love having these conversations with you, because you’re able to reflect, you have the awareness to be able to reflect and see both sides. And I feel like that’s what a lot of us out here in the world miss sometimes, that opportunity to really slow down and reflect on every decision that you’re making, every choice, every swipe. Every choice that you make is either getting you further towards alignment or further away from alignment.

And so, I think for me, and yes, I’ve shared this, and I’ve said it to him before, and not that Tori is not a hot guy, outwardly, of course, I would be attracted to him, but if I were to see a profile or, like…

[14:42] Sahara

It’s like interests: Home Depo.

[14:43] Rosie

Yeah, no.

[14:45] Sahara

Some things around the house.

[14:47] Rosie

We make fun, you know. But it’s true, I like to be at home with my dog. Like, he is so insular and so just…

[14:55] Sahara

I can’t even imagine him making a dating app.

[14:58] Rosie


[14:58] Sahara

Also like, let’s put a pin on just, like, dating apps and the energies behind them.

[15:03] Rosie

Oh yeah, let’s do that. Yeah, but, so, I would not have been, if it was now, today, 2023, I wouldn’t have even, you know, I would’ve just kept going because, I would see just the external, right? We are 3D, 5D, however you want to see it, we are multi-faceted beings and we’re just making an assumption on somebody’s multi-facetedness on a 2-dimensional app.

[15:33] Sahara

Which is so – because I’ve even realized it too, because you helped me make my profile, which was very nerve-wrecking for me. And even just the pictures that you choose, makes people think you’re a completely different person.

[15:45] Rosie


[15:46] Sahara

How much you write, you know, can make you come off as a completely different person. So, they’re not actually even getting to know a good reflection of you, and most of us are not even good at making these profiles, right? So, it’s like, whatever mood you were in that day, is what people are going to think that you are. 

I could put all my spiritual pictures and me, like, in Egypt, and people would have one perception of me; I could put a picture of me DJ-ing and twerking in Trinidad, they’d have another perception of me, but it’s like…

[16:07] Rosie

That’s my personal… I would swipe on that. 

[16:11] Sahara

But then they would be entering into a dynamic, thinking “Oh, this girl is just going to be a lot of fun”.

[16:17] Rosie

Yeah, but here’s the thing on that. It is a part of you, so, if somebody swipes on your spiritual stuff, then all of a sudden, you’re coming out twerking and DJ-ing…

[16:25] Sahara

And then, they would be confused, so, it’s hard to show all sides of you when you have, like, five pictures in one sentence.

[16:29] Rosie

Right, and I think that that’s the part where I feel like every single app out there needs to have a disclaimer, to say “You’re seeing just a 0.001% of this person’s being, you’re only seeing…”, and also, high, and you’re also seeing the parts that I want you to see, which, you know, for some people, are, they’re really good at showing a story, and other people… You know, like, Tori is an incredible man, he’s a husband material, he’s been since day one, that man would not know how to create that profile for himself, you know. And somebody could just see him and be like “No, like, he just looks boring”, you know, and he’s so not. But I think that that’s part of that dynamic where I, you know, you and I talk about this, and think – I talk to a lot of my students about it too, that are single and in this world of swipe culture and how confusing it is, how depressing it is, how overwhelming it is. And sometimes, I think a little distance from the swiping, it’s just like social media, right, we take social media breaks…

[17:37] Sahara

Yeah, I just deleted this app, by the way.

[17:38] Rosie

Oh, okay, great. But that’s – you know, sometimes I think we just need breaks. Like, I think the part that we forget – back in my day, I’m going to date myself now, but back in the day, we met people, and I’m almost 10 years older than you are. So, when I was single, we met people out in the world.

[17:59] Sahara

How did you know if you were murderers or rapists, stalkers?

[18:04] Rosie

Well, you still don’t. I mean, but back then – you still don’t know now.

[18:07] Sahara


[18:08] Rosie

You know, there’s no – all you can do now is, you have access to more information which, sometimes, I feel like kills that mystique. It’s like, yes, there are predators out there, that is true.

[18:18] Sahara

And they could be on that app, or they can be in real life. In fact, probably in real life, you could feel their energy a lot more than someone’s profile.

[18:23] Rosie

Yeah, and that’s the thing. Back in the day, you could go to the mall, or you could go to a bar, or you could go to a concert, you can go see a show, you could go to a comedy show, and you’re looking around, scanning people, you’re observing, this is naturally what we do, we’re clocking the room because we are animalistic, right? We’re looking for that energy that aligns with where we are.

[18:49] Sahara

But here’s the paradox of that, that I’ve noticed, and we’re just going to keep going. But, there’s something that’s like this desperation of going out to meet someone.

[18:59] Rosie

Okay, tell me more about this.

[19:01] Sahara

I feel like a lot of girls, I don’t know if guys do it, of like, they’re getting ready, hoping like “Tonight, he’s going to be here”, the moment they walk into the bar, wherever they’re going, they do the scan “Is he here? Oh, he’s not here”, and then their mood goes down because they were only out to find the guy. 

So, I feel like, sometimes, where these apps are helpful for people is, I don’t need to, like, force myself to go out somewhere I wouldn’t want to go just in the hopes of meeting someone.

[19:24] Rosie

Yeah, but still, you’re going to be disappointed because the expectation is there, and expectation is just pre-meditated resentment, right?

[19:32] Sahara

Yeah, and that’s why you should just go places that you would just want to go, regardless, so that you find someone or not, you would want to be there.

[19:39] Rosie

Yeah, but I think what you’re saying is way more complex. Our desire, the desperation, where does the desperation come from? It comes from a place of not knowing, of not knowing whether “I’m going to be alone forever”. So, it’s stemming from a place of fear.

[19:57] Sahara

And impatience too.

[19:59] Rosie

And impatience.

[19:59] Sahara

Because it takes a lot more time to meet someone in real life, and going to a lot of places. And you know, 95% of the time, you’re not going to meet someone there, but maybe 5% of the time you will, and maybe 1% of those is actually going to turn into a date or something. Whereas with these apps, you’re getting such a high volume of people. You could be going through hundreds of profiles a day and have ten dates a day, if that’s what you want to do. But then it’s like a Vegas buffet.

[20:24] Rosie

Yeah, it’s vacant, there’s no substance.

[20:25] Sahara

And I find, every time I go on these apps, I like, literally get depressed after because I’m sad of the way that we have dehumanized each other, the way I’m judging people, the way people are judging me, the way that we’re, like, selling ourselves to strangers. And then, even, like, the dynamics on these apps, most people don’t even talk, you know, because it’s like, you’re, kind of, texting with this stranger that you have no text about, you’re trying to find some common ground on something, you have to keep logging into an app to even have the conversation, you forget about it. And then, I find very few people, actually, end up meeting in person. I actually haven’t even gotten to that stage yet. 

But I remember, in my early 20s, when I did, and then it’s like, that person, it’s like, you don’t have a vibe and you have to, like, reject them, kind of, and then you have to deal with that. So, I feel like that’s why, also, we try to even not meet the person because we’re like “I don’t want to have to deal with meeting them and it not going well, and then I have to reject them, and I’ll feel bad”. 

So, it’s hard because, like, in theory, yes, you can be meeting all these people, but I find these apps, very few people are actually connecting in person.

[21:29] Rosie

Yeah. And I think that that’s the big problem. And look, when we are meeting somebody, when you’re single and you’re meeting somebody, most of the time, that first meeting is, you’re just looking and scanning for the first thing that you don’t like, right? You’re looking for the wrong answer, “How soon before this person gives me the wrong answer? How soon before this person gives me the red flag?”

[21:49] Sahara

And people write all the time in their profiles, it’s like “Don’t swipe if you’re this”, and like “I’m not looking for that”, and “Don’t waste my time”, and it’s like, they’re even coming in with that deterrence of energy.

[21:59] Rosie

Yeah! And that, I think, I mean, look, that’s not the grounds for a loving connection and a loving relationship. And it’s hard, we’ve had these conversations, add nauseum, many days, many months, many times, even before, we’ve had this conversation.

And I think it has more to do with our ability to discern when we need a break from it and what our worth is in this singledom experience. What is my worth? What is my value? What am I looking for and can I find what I’m looking for within myself first?

So, one of the things that I was thinking about too, and I know that we’ve talked about this before, but this ideas of finding a soulmate, right?

So, first of all, what is your belief on soulmates?

[22:50] Sahara

I believe we have various soulmates in this lifetime and they come into our lives to teach us different life lessons that we can only learn through them and through their absence as well. And I think we have different time contracts with them, you know. And also, not all of them are romantic. Like, you’re a soulmate of mine, but we ain’t going there, you know. My life would be way easier, I’m just saying, God, please, just turn me into a lesbian, please, so many options can show up, you know!

[23:21] Rosie

I love that she’s the first conversation I have, anytime anything happens, it’s like, I’m coming home from a trip and I’m like “This is what happened”, by the way, I’ve not talked to Tori.

[23:30] Sahara

Exactly. So, it’s like, we can be soulmates; you can have your parents or a grandma, and you can have romantic ones. I don’t believe in this whole twin flame thing that’s like, your soul in another person’s body and only this is true love, but you’re going to bring out all of the karma from each other, because that, to me, is trauma bonding. 

And coming back to attraction, I think what a lot of attraction is, is trauma bonding, it’s, that person feels very familiar to your childhood traumas and they fit into yours, and that’s why you’re able to make this dynamic work so much, because it feels so familiar, of like “Oh, you’re bringing up my wound of not feeling important for my father, perfect”, “Oh, you’re bringing up my wound of having my mother be like a helicopter parent, perfect”, “I know this really well, let’s be in relationship”. And the reason why it can feel so, like, fireworky and stuff, is because it’s triggering that trauma that’s making you come alive. 

And now, just speaking to a lot of people who are in successful, long-term, conscious relationships, a lot of them did not have that spark at the beginning. And I think that’s so huge because we think “Oh, if I meet someone it’s either on, and, like, I know it’s them, and it’s like, we can’t keep our hands off each other”, or “That’s not my person”, but a lot of these people, they said “We were friends for years and there was never a spark until one day there was”, or they were in and out, or some of them even started with one-night stands and weird situations. And I think it’s important to note that because we’re so used to attraction being this like really, like, intense chemistry thing, when often, that chemistry is actually our body’s alert to the familiarity of the trauma.

[25:03] Rosie

There’s the science of attraction.

[25:06] Sahara


[25:06] Rosie

What if instant attraction is just trauma bonding? 

[25:09] Sahara

Yeah. Well, and here’s another part, though. Yes, it can be trauma bonding, yes, it can also be soul contracts of like, this person and you are meant to do this dance in some type of way, and God is bringing you guys together. And again, it might be to break each other’s hearts and learn lessons you can only through that, or it could be to create something, a business, together, or it could be to move to another place. 

I find, sometimes, people come into your life to get you to move somewhere and then once that relationship is done, they’re no longer needed in your life. And at the same time, there’s a lot of it that’s biological, like, based on evolution.

So, here’s one thing that the apps don’t do – so much of attraction is related to scent. 

So, there have been studies about women on birth control pills. And when you’re on birth control pill, your body thinks that it’s, essentially, pregnant, it’s not looking to procreate anymore. So, the scents that you’re attracted to, in a man, shift into someone with a more similar immune system to you. But when you’re not on the pill and you ovulate, you’re attracted to someone with the opposite immune system to you because that’s going to make your child have the strongest immune system.

So, a lot of, like, when you meet someone and you’re just so attracted to them and you love their smell, is because your immune systems are polar opposites. 

So, in this study, they found that women were meeting people, dating, getting married to these men, and then getting off birth control to get pregnant, and then, all of a sudden, they couldn’t stand the scent of their husbands, they’re like “Something about him, I just don’t want to be near him”, and it was leading to divorce, that they, through this research, they kind of renamed birth control pill, the divorce pill, because these women were choosing men that had similar immune systems to them, because they were on the pill when they met these men. Then, when they got off of the pill, and they were actually ovulating, it was similar, so their bodies were having this adverse reaction that as it was your family member.

And I think that this is really important because if you’ve only been on birth control the whole time that you’ve known your partner, there actually might be a shift when you come off. So, part of it is that, part of that is, there’s a really book called “The Science of Beauty”, I think, and it’s about, like, why we find certain people beautiful, and a lot of it based on fertility. 

So, for women, we’re attracted to round faces, big eyes, big lips, full hair, almost like baby-like qualities, you know, because it’s showing youth. We’re attracted to the waist to hip ratio, that’s showing fertility; we’re attracted to glowing skin; having a lot of energy, that that means that they’re vivacious, they’re able to procreate life. 

And then for men, we’re attracted to broad shoulders, angular jaw lines, which are signs of testosterone, deep voices. And I really want to talk about voices because that’s such a huge thing, for me especially. I hear someone’s voice and it’s like yes or no, because your voice says so much about your embodiment and your testosterone and estrogen levels, and just, like, who you are as a person. So, we’re picking up on all these cues that you would just not through an app, that you might meet that person and just be – like, something about them is just energetically repulsive to you, or you might meet someone that’s, like, not your type at all, but something about them, their voice, their smell, their something, is super attractive to you. And then it’s the question of, is it biology, is it the trauma bonding, and that’s like, that’s where only time will tell, and being honest with yourself.

[28:21] Rosie

Yeah, I love that, and I love that we’re using the science aspect. I think that, in that same book, there’s the t-shirt study, where the men, they’re sweating and then they have the women smell to see what smells repellant to them and what smell is attractive to them. So, all the men did was just sweat in these shirts, so, they’re just smelling sweat, but some women would be, like, completely repulsed by the smell, and others, same t-shirt, same guy, would be completely attracted to them. And most of the women that were attracted to certain smells were also in their ovulation phase.

[28:59] Sahara

Yes. And also, women who are ovulating, their sweat is more attractive to men in general.

[29:06] Rosie

This is so interesting. So, I love the voice experience that you’re talking to because I feel, also, the science of attraction is so layered, it’s not just an esthetic, because somebody can be esthetically beautiful and you’re having an experience, and the minute they open their open their mouth, you’re like “This is a no, for me”, or the minute that you get near them and you smell them, you might be a little bit “No”. 

So, I’m curious, for you, you said the voice thing is something very important to you. Like, what is it about the voice that you find so intriguing?


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[31:13] End of Advertisement


[31:15] Sahara

Well, I teach about the voice, right, with my Speak With Soul course, so I’ve been really diving into the voice. And then having this Podcast for over seven years, and hearing my voice again and again, and hearing how my voice has changed as I have changed, I’ve really noticed the, kind of, the correlation between your voice and your embodiment. And I find that when I’m hearing someone’s voice, I can tell what chakras they’re connected with.

So, if someone’s voice is way more up here and more nasally and kind of sounds like Steve Urkel when they’re talking, I can just tell they’re probably a really heady person and we probably wouldn’t, like, fucking kick it, you know. Whereas, if someone has, like, a deep voice, you know, I mean, it could be…

[31:53] Rosie

A deep voice…

[31:54] Sahara

It could be kind of creepy and read, like, soft, romantic novels to you.

[32:00] Rosie

So good!

[32:02] Sahara

Or they could be, you know, they’re obviously, like, very rooted and in their masculine. And it’s like, also, about finding your happy medium. 

I find that the percentage feminine you are, is the percentage masculine that that person you will attract. So, let’s say I am 70% feminine, 30% masculine, I’m likely going to be attracted to someone who is 70% masculine, 30% feminine. 

So, for me, I’m not attracted to someone who’s like “Yeah, watch football and geared on”, that’s not, I just can’t because I have, like, I run a business and I have these things that are, like, in my masculine. Whereas if I was like “A cheerleader and I just want to be a housewife”, like, I might. Those people, who are like 95% feminine, end up with someone who’s 95% masculine, because it’s that polarity.

Whereas, for me, I find myself attracted to men who are creative, and artistic, and musicians, which are like, have feminine qualities, but they’re still in their masculine, because I have the ability to create and take care of myself and have that. Whereas, some people who are like 50/50 masculine/feminine, let’s say a non-binary person, tend to be attracted to other non-binary people.

So, as you shift and you step more into (as a woman), you step more into your masculine, and that’s not a bad thing, we actually that, we want to be more integrated within ourselves, we’re going to find a man who’s more integrated within himself, who’s able to communicate, who’s in touch with his emotions, who’s able to create, who’s able to hold space for you. But if you’re not able to hold space for yourself, if you’re not able to find safety for yourself…

And this is what I see, because I’m now reading all these things about, like, be a high-value woman, and it’s like “The man needs to provide the safety and he needs to do this, and he needs to do that”, and it’s like, okay, so you’re going to just wait, in your life, for someone to provide you a sense of purpose, and stability, and safety, and all these things, and you’re going to outsource it to another person, like, good luck to that, because it’s not going to last, because love has its own mind and nothing’s guaranteed. 

And then, men also, they don’t want to feel responsible, now, for like “Oh shit, I have to be your everything?!”

[34:04] Rosie

Yeah, I think that’s a big ask for men to take that responsibility on themselves, because it’s changing now, the male and female, and non-binary, roles are changing, everything is shifting, our dynamic is no longer two things, right?

So, I think it’s really something that’s not discussed enough, the pressures that men have to be that person. And it was more so back in the day, right, where men were, sort of, trained and conditioned to be the sole provider, and you need to take care of your woman, and you need to be able to provide. And I think that that’s why a lot of marriages failed, because I feel like men also want to be met and they also want to be supported, and I’m not saying it has to be an equal dynamic either. I think to each his own, you know. I know that from, I can only, I guess, speak on my experience, in my relationship. I know that Tori and I met, we were both career people, we were both working, he has his own business, he’s very successful and he’s gone through the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur, and I had a career at the time and when I decided I wanted to become a meditation, and mindfulness, and yoga teacher, I knew that it was going to be a little bit of a strain for us because I wasn’t going to be bringing in as much (or any) income. And you know, he really supported me in that time, but I just felt like, for me, I want to be able to bring something to the table, you know. And I’m not saying financially, but it just feels like, in a relationship, there needs to be that co-creating aspect, I can’t just be a trad wife, right? I mean, no offence to any trad wives out there. Have you heard about this?

So, trad wife is traditional wife, it’s like a thing, you should check it out on TikTok. So, a trad wife, from what I understand, and I’m getting these videos because of this shit that I watch (of you, by the way), so random about relationships. But a trad, it’s traditional wife, that, there’s this big movement happening right now where women are really embracing this role of being a traditional at home wife, at home mom, they stay at home with the kids and they do the cooking, the cleaning and they really take a lot of pride in this role. And I think, if that’s your dharma, if that’s your path, if that’s your purpose, do it. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, and that’s your purpose, do it, do it well and do it with love and with devotion. If your husband is somebody who wants to take care of a traditional wife and wants to have that role, and you find somebody that’s aligned, great, perfect, you found each other, it’s in alignment, it’s great. 

But I just feel like, for a lot of women that I know, anyway, that’s not their way. I didn’t grow up around women who wanted to be a traditional housewife. My mom always worked, I always wanted to provide for myself, I wanted to have, something, like I said, I’m bringing to the table. And I know that, for me, my partner really respects the fact that I’m self-motivated, that I have something that I’m really passionate about because he has something he’s really passionate about. 

And one of the things that, him and I have talked about this before, and I’ve asked him, like, what we ask each other, well, I’m always the one that’s asking the questions to be honest, but I’m like “What attracted you to me? Like, what was it about me that you found attractive?” You know, obviously, Tori has a type, we’re not going to go into that, but aside from the external or the initial attraction, he said that it was my devotion to whatever I did, you know. He said, “Just, whether you’re learning or you’re studying, or you’re working, you fully immerse yourself in whatever it is that you’re doing, and that was really attractive to me”. And for me, at that point, I was 20, I was in my early 20s, so, I’m curious if that is the same still for men, are men still really attracted to women who are fully immersed in whatever it is that they’re doing, that have a purpose, that are career-oriented? I mean, I would say yes, but yeah, this is a great question to ask.

[38:40] Sahara

I think it comes back to the percentage of masculine and feminine. So, a man who’s like 90% masculine, he works, he watches football with a beer and, like, he wants someone to cook, and clean, and take care of the kids, he doesn’t have feminine energy within him, he doesn’t have creativity, he doesn’t have those things, so he needs that from his partner. And then, someone who’s hyper feminine, she never wants to work, she doesn’t like that pressure at all, she would much rather fold a bunch of laundry than have to go on a Zoom call, that’s perfect 90/90%. Whereas, yeah, the more you bring in that other dynamic within yourself, it’s like, for Tori, he’s also an artist, you know, that he’s going to respect someone that has it. I think what’s interesting is the way that it can change within us. 

[39:21] Rosie


[39:21] Sahara

So, I grew up Persian, like, your greatest ambition in life is to be a wife and a mother. So, I was taught, like “Oh, you’re going to cut the vegetables, you’re going to serve them, like, you’re going to look good all the time, that’s what matters in life, and you know, and don’t get too successful because it’s going to get intimidating for men, and men don’t like powerful women”. And you know, my whole life, it was like, who you’re going to marry was, like, the most important thing. And that’s what I thought I wanted in my early 20s, of like, get married to a successful guy so I could, like, do volunteer work. Then, I even entered my relationship not being, it’s like, I was writing my book but I wasn’t really making money, I was, like, coming back from India, I wasn’t in this embodiment of it. And then he was looking for someone who was more that role, then I was shifting, and he was shifting, but not at as much as I was, that it’s like, you can’t go back to a former version of you, it’s like, humans are going to evolve. But I can also understand someone’s like “Well, my expectation of you was to be a stay-at-home wife, and that’s no longer what you want to be”. And I think that’s what’s tricky, you know, because we evolve so much in relationships that, you’re not always with that person when you met them, that person is going to evolve.

[40:29] Rosie

Yeah. No, no, no.

[40:30] Sahara

And a lot of people think it’s like “Oh, I need to do my healing work and then enter into relationship”, but really, it’s a relationship where you probably evolve, like, more quickly than anything else. 

So, I have found, now, within me, like, no parts of me wants to be this stay-at-home wife, cutting vegetables at all, so I would just definitely never entertain someone who’s looking for that. For me, because I bring in just my great positive energy and my humor and my sexiness, and everything else that I bring along, and maybe I’ll cut you up some cucumbers sometimes, you know, I got bigger things to do, you know, on this planet.

[41:02] Rosie

But let me ask you something, I know you say that, but at the same time…

[41:05] Sahara

Maybe I’ll turn around, I’ll be like “Yo, I’m just staying at home with the casserole, guys!”

[41:11] Rosie

Look, I think this is the most interesting thing in our dynamic. I think the mind is a powerful place and we tell ourselves whatever it is that we need in that moment, to fill that space and to make us feel good in that moment. But the reality is, you don’t know.

[41:27] Sahara

You don’t know.

[41:28] Rosie

You don’t know. You could meet somebody…

[41:29] Sahara

It’s like friends, the moment they have kids, then all of a sudden they are actually like “I want to stay at home with my kids as much as possible, and I used to be super career-oriented”, and then their kids become 2 years old and they’re like “Actually, I want to do the career again”, and it’s like, we change so much.

[41:41] Rosie

So much. And I thinks it allowed, I think we should give ourselves permission to do that and be okay with not having that…

[41:46] Sahara

But then, what about the dynamic of “I thought I married this, and you keep changing”?

[41:51] Rosie

Okay, but that’s…but look at our relationship.

[41:53] Sahara


[41:53] Rosie

You know, it’s, Tori and I’s relationship changes every year, every year, there is something. I mean, he really went through it with me, and I talk about it in my book, how I had all these different careers that I wanted to do. I wanted to be a marine biologist, I wanted to go to culinary school, I wanted to be a ghosthunter, like, I wanted to do so many different things.

[42:14] Sahara

Ghostbusters. We’re kind of wearing ghostbusters out.

[42:17] Rosie

I know. Actually, it is, kind of like a little bit works too. And there’s a ghost in this building, by the way (side-note).

I think that’s a really nice – you know you have a strong relationship when you can go through the changes, and you get to really see who somebody is when you are going through a transformation, right? When you are going through that experience of breaking through that chrysalis, right, it’s like when the monarch is a little egg, and from the egg, it turns into a caterpillar, from the caterpillar, it turns into a chrysalis, and then it stays in there for 14 days, plus, and then when it’s ready, it has to struggle, and strain, and effort, and move, and work, and work, and work to the point of exhaustion, to break out of its shell, because it needs that strength to fly, right? 

And so, when we are going through that cycle in our relationships, the most important thing is not “Oh, is this person hot?”, or “Oh, is this person good in bed?”, or “Does this person snore at night?”, it’s “Can this person withstand me growing?”, right? 

[43:34] Sahara

And dying.

[43:35] Rosie

And dying!

[43:36] Sahara

Because we go through our own death cycles, and it’s honestly, you’re going to die regardless, many times in your life, and your relationship is going to die, can you die well?

[43:45] Rosie

Yeah, mic drop! That’s a tweetable moment.  

[43:48] Sahara

A tweetable moment! But it’s true, because we think we’re entering into the stagnant container of “Okay, this is our relationship, these are our agreements, and it’s set in stone”, and it’s not because you have two ever-changing beings, and then this relationship is a third person that’s ever-changing as well. It is an entity that’s being birthed on its own, and it goes through its own metamorphosis. And sometimes, the relationship needs to die, you know, the way that it was before. And often, that happens only when you’re, like, at the brink of breaking up, or you actually break up, that you realize “Am I in or am I out? And if I’m in, this is what I need, and this is also how I need to change”. And I think most people don’t do that, we’re so quick to go onto the next and think “Oh, it’s that person! That person’s not it for me”, and we go onto another and another, and we never find that person because relationships are never going to fully meet you, all the time.

Like, I have a friend, she’s been on this Podcast, Lucy, she’s this amazing tantra teacher, and she met her husband, they were in their early 20s and they had all this amazing sex, and then he went through this journey of, like, going through really bad health problems and then becoming handicapped, and now he does all these water baths. And it’s like, here, she thought, she’s entering this, like, super-hot sex relationship and she’s, like, having to take care of him a lot of the time. They’ve also been together, like, almost 20 years, and they just keep showing up for each other and choosing each other, and knowing it’s just a season. 

And you know, even for me, going through my divorce, I was, like, probably an annoying friend because I’m just processing and talking. Imagine if you were just like “Well, screw this, you know, she’s not as funny anymore, like, I’m out!”, actually, I was funny.

[45:27] Rosie

She was funny. I want to dial her back, let’s bring her back.

[45:30] Sahara

But it’s like, it’s a season in a friendship and you go through that wave. And I think we’re just so used to instant gratification and everything in our society right now, that we don’t allow people to go through those waves, so they don’t, and they hold it back, and then they hold back their growth, and then you’re both playing roles. 

And that brings me back to – like, I’ve been really looking at dating and, like, marriage, and it’s almost like you date people and you’re attracted to people that you like, but then the moment it turns into marriage, it becomes about choosing a role, of like “Oh, are they husband or wife material?”, and now, what that means is, they’re going to replace my father or mother, they’re going to take care of me, they’re going to this, they’re going to that. And it’s like, you would choose someone to marry – there’s even that game Kill Marry Fuck.

[46:12] Rosie

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[46:13] Sahara

And it’s always like, you’re going to fuck the hottest one, you’re going to kill the annoying one and marry the most stable one, you know.

[46:20] Rosie

Fuck Marry Kill.

[46:22] Sahara

So, with that, why do we choose to marry people – it’s like, you see people, they’re, like, dating people of, like, one type, and then all of a sudden they get married to someone, like, from their hometown that they would’ve, like, never even been friends with.

[46:33] Rosie


[46:34] Sahara

It’s like, that’s the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. So now, for me, going into this, I don’t want to wear different lenses of marriage material vs. dating material or vs. this, it’s like “Do I enjoy your company, and let’s just naturally see where it goes”.

[46:47] Rosie

Yeah. I love what you said about marriage is fulfilling a role, because that’s exactly what it is. And I feel like marriage means so many different things to so many different people. And I think that that’s where the disappointment can begin, that is the inception of disappointment, is the minute that you…

[47:07] Sahara

It’s a good question, like, what does being married mean to you?

[47:11] Rosie

Yeah, what does it mean? And I think that, for me, and you know this, I wanted to get married or first 7 years of our relationship, so bad, and I didn’t – and I’m also Hispanic, right, so I’m like “Why am I not married yet? This is an anomaly, it doesn’t make sense”.

[47:26] Sahara

You had the dress ready.

[47:27] Rosie

Yeah, it was ready, I had the whole thing, the whole extravaganza was fully loaded.

[47:31] Sahara

Pinatas ready to go!

[47:33] Rosie

Yeah, it was ready.

[47:35] Sahara

Batter up!

[47:36] Rosie

We should do it next time we plan and cancel a wedding. Uhm, so yeah. But look, I really had an epiphany in that experience because I realized, this man is acting as if, so, he doesn’t care about marriage and I equated that, he doesn’t care about me. But this man is the most loyal, most devoted human being I know, most honest, most stand-up guy, not just to me, but to everybody in his life, he really is that person. I’m going to give up this relationship because of a piece of paper, because I want to make it official, what? That doesn’t make any sense, why would I throw away a near, I don’t want to say perfect because nothing is perfect, but a near-perfect relationship because I’m not getting him to fill that role, right? That role that I think is the end all/be all of relationships. Like, this is where we’re heading, this is where we need to go, and if he’s not willing to do that for me…

[48:53] Sahara

He’s not committed, he’s not serious about it.

[48:54] Rosie

He’s not committed.

[48:56] Sahara

He wants out.

[48:57] Rosie


[48:57] Sahara

And old me, prior to divorce, would’ve been like “Yeah, like, if he really wants to be with you forever, why not have the piece of paper, what’s the big deal, you know?”

[49:06] Rosie

Oh, let’s talk about this, too. Because, at that time, I had so many people in my life saying that to me, “Oh, he’s not serious about you”, “I mean, it’s been 7 years, babe, he’s not going to do it. I mean, if he’s not done it this far, like, he just, he’s probably never going to do it”.

[49:21] Sahara

And what was his reasoning of not wanting to?

[49:23] Rosie

He just doesn’t believe in marriage, you know. He’s not a religious person, he’s not a… he has his own spiritual practice, but he’s not a dogmatic human being. Tori is like a rage against the machine rebel. I mean, he grew up in a town of 700 people, with one blinking light, and he was always the odd man out, and that is who he is, to his core. So, why would he, then, decide to step into tradition? This is the other thing that I tell men, women, out there, who are single. When you meet somebody, believe them who they are, when they tell you who they are, believe them, don’t think “Oh, I can change that, we can adapt that, we can…”, yeah. 

[50:07] Sahara

Let’s put a pit on potential, though. After our conversation with Jay Shetty, who is inspiring us.

[50:11] Rosie

Oh, yes, yes. Okay, well, so, just to seal that, what you were saying about how, the point was, I was really affected at that time because I was insecure within myself, that’s the truth. I was insecure, and so I needed him…

[50:26] Sahara

Because you can program to, if a man is serious about you, he’s going to give you the ring and he’s going to propose it – [singing].

[50:33] Rosie

Exactly. And you know, tomato-tomato.

[50:36] Sahara

But yeah, and it’s like, look, your relationship has outlasted all of those marriages.

[50:40] Rosie

Yeah, all of those friends that told us we needed to get married, are all divorced, all three of them, you know. And to me, I still have a way better relationship with my partner, and hopefully we continue to choose each other.

[50:54] Sahara

Well, it’s this fallacy that marriage is security, that like, once you marry them, you’ve sealed the deal and it is forever and there’s no way it’s going to get messed up. And I used to believe that too. And I’ve realized that nothing in life is security, nothing in life is guaranteed. Whether you have a paper or not, the same traumas, the same dynamics, the same patterns are going to show up.

And in some ways, actually, being married can make it worse because you’re taking each other for granted, you’re no longer in this, like, choosing, of like “I can walk away. Oh my god, we had this big ceremony, we had these legal things and we have these things that we’re sharing”, that I found that a lot of couples stop making as much of an effort with each other once they’re married because it’s just, like “Okay, locked and loaded, I don’t need to worry about this”. But those same issues are going to show up, it just makes the break-up a lot more complicated because, now, there’s, like, legal papers involved. That, for me, now, growing up with marriage as the pedestal, I would never do a legal marriage again because…

[51:48] Sahara

I was going to ask you, yeah, like, yeah, what do you believe, now, having this experience, what is your outlook on marriage? 

[51:55] Sahara

I think marriage is a beautiful, like, ceremonial joining of two souls, like, I would do like a spiritual marriage. I love parties, so I would definitely have a party, I want to go all out, but do it my own way. You even, even at my wedding, I was so concerned with, like, you were one of my bridesmaids and you saw it, but I was so concerned with things like colors of the flowers, I’m like “It was hot pink, I said coral pink”, you know, and it was like this really stressful thing in my mind, you know, like “What was she thinking?!” Or like, the table name cards are on the wrong tables, I wanted these people to sit here, but those people sat together”, and like, all these little things feel like such a big deal for you at the time, and then, the day passes and it doesn’t matter. So, no, I would never – I would just do it my way and our way, and just have friends and community, and have it be this multi-day, like festival of our love and celebration. But would I, like, have to go to the government and get this legal thing involved, no, because that doesn’t mean anything. 

And I get that, if, I don’t know, I think if someone’s never been married before, they really hold onto that and it means a lot, and I have compassion, but sometimes it takes you having that illusion crumble, to realize that, honestly, love is eternal, but relationships are ever-changing. 

[53:11] Rosie

Yeah, and I love the outlook for you. And if I could say one thing about being with you during this experience is that, it’s been, and I’ve said this to you, it’s been so inspiring to see you really just own it, you know, and to dive into your healing journey and your transformation, and just have that courage to self-reflect and to see – I mean, look, and I mean, I know you share stuff here, but I think people, you know, really need to understand the level of your devotion to your growth, you know. And I think it’s – I wish more people would do that, especially when they come out of relationships, you know. 

Like, you and I have been through, yes, we’re there for each other in all the good things, but we’ve also been with each other through, you know, hard times and difficult situations, and I think that’s another, it’s another aspect of a healthy relationship, is to be able to be with somebody through a break-up, whether it’s a friendship, whether it’s a romantic relationship, to see who they are. People really show you who they are in the middle of a traumatic experience, right, or something that’s devastating. And I really feel like all of the work that you’re doing and all the work that you’re sharing here with everybody is, you’re living it, and I think it’s great that you’re able to allow yourself to integrate these lessons. And it’s very inspiring, because I’m learning so much too, in your experience, obviously, and my relationship, because if not, I mean, think about how complacent, two people that have been together for 20 years, can be in a relationship, you know. If you don’t have people in your life that are constantly growing and showing you who you are, you’re going to be stuck and nothing is ever going to evolve, and you’re always going to want something more.

[55:09] Sahara

And I think that break-ups can be our greatest catalysts for growth, because it shakes up your world and you can choose to, like, not heal and then probably just keep dating the same person again and again, and keep having the exact same dynamic, or you can choose to, not just look at the relationship, but look at yourself and the role that you played in it, and how you were in it, and how it was connected to your childhood, how it’s connected to your ancestral lineage. 

And I mean, I have been uncovering my entire ancestry through this, learning about my grandmother’s divorce, that I never even knew how to divorce before, and the effect it had on my dad, and like, all of these things that would’ve never come to surface, it’s healing my whole entire family. And they say, when we do this work, we also heal seven generations before and seven generations after, that, I wouldn’t have – and it’s like, I love who I am and who I’m becoming. And if I didn’t have to go through that pressure cooker, yeah, I would’ve been complacent as well. And I think that, sometimes, yeah, when you don’t have that break-up, then you remain in that same relationship again and again, and then it ends up drifting and then you’re just living, kind of, separate lives.

And so, I’m grateful to be able to share along my teachings with you and everyone here listening, and know that, my hope is, you don’t need to have, like, an on your knees moment, to change, you know, that we can start to listen to those little intuitive nudges and really learn from each other’s experiences, and not have to, like… I feel like, often times, couples don’t really communicate until they’re, like, on the verge of break-up. You know, often, they don’t go to therapy until they really need the therapy, and it’s like, how can you start doing it beforehand. A relationship can be good, how can I make it great? How can I make it better, and better, and better without it having to break for me to really look at it?

[56:48] Rosie

Yeah. I love that! Let’s go back to the potential and Jay Shetty, because you put a pin there and I want to close that loop for everybody.

[56:54] Sahara

Yes! So, we were at a soccer game with my friend Lillie Singh, she’s been on the Podcast before, and Jay Shetty was there, who, many of you guys know, podcaster and author, and he just wrote a book on love. So, we were chatting to him about love and how about he and his wife Radhi, they’ve been together, married, for like 10 years, I want to say. And, you know, we were just talking about dating someone’s potential and he’s like “Well, Radhi dated my potential, because when she met me, I wasn’t making an income, really, and I had just left from being a monk, and her family came from wealth and mine did not, but she saw potential in me and she loved being with me, and in a way took a risk, and she never could’ve imagined…”, it’s like, she just loved him for him. And here’s the difference, she didn’t date him for his potential, she dated him because she loved him as he was at that moment of time. And even if he never changed and he was still that broke monk then, she would’ve still loved him. Whereas, some people are like “Oh, you might be this job now, but I could see you doing this, this, this, and if you did that, then I would be into you”, so that’s the difference between dating a potential. Whereas, she chose him and saw his potential, and he ended up growing in this way. However, the dynamic of their relationship changed, she, maybe, thought she was going to be with someone who’s at home all the time, and he’s traveling around the world and, you know, they’re still continuing to choose each other. But I think that that’s also the important piece of, like, people are going to change and are you going to continue to lean in when it’s not what you signed up for?

[58:27] Rosie

Yeah. But I think, yes, yes, and, I also know that when you’re in that situation, dating somebody’s potential, there has to be the components there, there has to be the action and the effort, right, there has to be.

I think that’s a great way to key in on whether it’ll work for you or not. I can date somebody that, you know, I might not care, it’s like, maybe I have more means than they do, but they have the potential and they’re actively working towards something, that is already within itself, already moving towards that path.

[59:03] Sahara

I think we’re always dating someone’s potential, because if they were never going to change, then that’s a stagnant person.

[59:09] Rosie

That’s right.

[59:10] Sahara

But also, if that person’s idea never takes off, would you still choose them? And that’s the difference.

[59:15] Rosie

Well, I think, I have two examples, and I’m curious to get your take. I had two sets of students, one of them, I was working with her as a coach, at the time, she was an actress, he’s a screenwriter and they had been together, at that point, for 10 years. She had just booked a big show and so, she was starting to work a lot, and he just continued to be a screenwriter, trying to sell and finish his script that he had been working on for, at that point, 10 years. And so, again, she stayed, they were in love and they loved each other’s families and all of that, but she was really unhappy because she started to feel, after 10 years, that he was very complacent and he was very jaded, and he was very unmotivated. There was no action, there was no effort, it was just seemingly him, just saying that he was working on something and her being complacent about him working on whatever he was working on. And it became an issue and they ended up separating because… and the separation is what it took for him to actually publish his work, and now he’s a big screenwriter, working on a big show. And they have a relationship now, but at the time, it was almost like, she saw the potential, but they, maybe, weren’t meant to be together, and it took that for him to, you know, that catalyst, to propel him to his success. 

[1:00:46] Sahara

And then they got back together?

[1:00:48] Rosie

No, they didn’t, they just ended up being separate. But her big thing, even now, when I’ve chatted with her is, why couldn’t he do that. Because, you know, he, whatever, it’s the whole…

[1:00:57] Sahara

Because break-ups are the catalysts.

[1:00:59] Rosie

Yeah, break-ups are the catalyst. He is now remarried and has a kid, and you know, she resents that a little bit because she feels like she put so much into it and…

[1:01:09] Sahara

I feel like we’re always training our partners for the next one.

[1:01:12] Rosie

Yeah, I know. It really is, honestly, if I’m going to be completely honest, the thing that I always say to Tori, we say this to each other, we’re like, the reason we stay together is because we’re just too lazy to go date, like, I just would not go on a dating app, and he’s like “I would not”, and I’m like “I would not, so let’s just stay together and let’s save ourselves the hassle”. And then, the other this is like…

[1:01:32] Sahara 

Yeah, but you guys also have hot sex, come on.

[1:01:33] Rosie

This is true. We have off the chain sex.

[1:01:36] Sahara

Can you enlighten us, because I feel like this is actually the…

[1:01:40] Rosie

Oh my god, let’s make sure this is a promo, so he can see it on your Instagram.

[1:01:43] Sahara

Let’s talk about, for a moment, keeping the attraction going in a long-term relationship.

[1:01:46] Rosie

Okay, yeah.

[1:01:47] Sahara

Because I feel like you guys have really mastered that.

[1:01:49] Rosie


[1:01:50] Sahara

And what do you think the key is?

[1:01:51] Rosie

The key is hot sex, it’s having sex.

[1:01:54] Sahara

Multiple times a week.

[1:01:55] Rosie

Yeah. I mean, look, we go through phases – for us, that’s our way to connect, you know. I always say, like, we have nothing in common other than we are just obsessed with each other and we have really great chemistry in bed. And I think that that’s really healthy for us. It was that same way in the beginning and it’s the same exact way now.

[1:02:18] Sahara

And the couples I know that have 10+ year relationships, all say the same thing, that their prioritizing their intimacy, like, multiple times a week, and I’m like “That’s what’s keeping them connected”, because, in a relationship, when you don’t have sex for a long time, it’s like, you just kind of get more irritable with each other and you’re just disconnected and it creates more of that roommate dynamic.

[1:02:38] Rosie

If Tori and I don’t intimately connect for more than a week and a half, I cannot stand the sight of him. Like, I don’t want to hear him, I don’t want to smell him, I don’t want to hear him sipping his coffee, like, I’m just like “You need to just go away”. But, you know, when we do have that connection, then it’s like, oh, I revere him and I’m obsessed with him.

And here’s the thing too, after 20 years, you know where all the right buttons are and you train them. What I was going to say before you asked that question was, one of the other reasons why I stay is because I’ve trained this man so perfectly well, he’s the perfect man, and I’m damned…

[1:03:13] Sahara

He’s the perfect lover.

[1:03:15] Rosie

I’ll be damned if I let that man go to someone else, I’ve put way too much time, and effort, and energy into his whole experience. I’m not going to take full credit, I mean, he’s an amazing person, anyway, but yeah.

[1:03:26] Sahara

But he’s also the full experience for you.

[1:03:28] Rosie


[1:03:28] Sahara

Because that next person might be like “I hate that you do that”, and you have to unlearn and relearn because every single person has different needs.

[1:03:34] Rosie

Has different needs, yeah. But for us, it’s working, and look, communication is key. You know, the reason why we have such great sex is because we always communicate with each other. And there have been lows, I mean, look, it’s been 20 years, there’s definitely been moments where we’ve both not been in great places and our intimacy, obviously, struggled at that time because it’s hard if you’re not – if you, yourself, don’t feel attractive, it’s hard for you to connect with somebody else, if you’re feeling insecure, if you feel, just, not connected to yourself. Or for him, you know, there was a couple moments in time where he was going through something really difficult in his business, and it brought his energy down. And those moments are really difficult, but we’ve been able to navigate those moments and come out on top.

[1:04:26] Sahara

And I think what we’re moving into, like, in David Data’s work, he talks about the three levels of, like, consciousness in men and women. So, like, the first stage, man and woman, is like, for women, she’s just all about her looks and appearance and finding a rich, successful sugar daddy kind of guy, and for a man it’s all about money, and success, and power, and that’s first stage. Then second stage, it becomes all about, like, my intellect and my status, and it becomes a lot more, like, gender neutral in a way, of like “I can do anything a man can do”, and, like, a man of like “Oh, no, I want to split the bill”, and like that, and then it’s – what I think the majority of people are in right now, it’s like, no one’s really dating, there just isn’t really a great connection, you know. And then, the third stage – so, the first stage is like “I need a man”, or “I need a woman”. The second stage is “I don’t need a man”, “I don’t need a woman”. And the third stage is “I don’t need, but I want”. And for women, it’s the quality of aliveness that’s attractive, and then for women, it’s the quality of consciousness and presence that’s attractive. So, a man who’s just very present with you is what you really want. And for a man, it’s a woman that’s very receptive to you and, like, as you’re talking to her, she is really feeling you, and she’s really feeling herself, and she’s… you know, we just did a podcast on tantra, and she was saying even just use your sound to be like “I like this feeling”, or “I don’t like this feeling”, because we need feedback. And that’s the third.

But I feel like we are, like, collectively, moving into a fourth stage, which David Data did not talk about, his books are like 20 years old now, where it’s like, you don’t need to think about it so much, of like “Okay, I need to do my polarity practice”, “Okay, like, I need to come home and change and go on my walk”, because I think, even with the polarity stuff, it’s role-playing, and you can’t really be yourself, and then you’re in your head of like “Oh my god, was I too masculine, was I too this, was I that?”, and that’s a very masculine thing, to be thinking about how feminine you are, or are not. 

So, I feel like this fourth stage is what you guys are embodying, of like, you’re naturally having that attraction and you go through ebbs and flows, and you guys work together, and you spend a lot of time in the house together, and you make an initiative to go on a trip, or spend time apart and do these things. And I feel like that’s where we’re heading to as a society, it’s like, we need to learn and master those things so then we can let go of them.

[1:06:48] Rosie

Yeah, yeah. No, I think that that’s absolutely true, and it definitely resonates for us because we do have that dynamic. And look, when you’re together 24/7, there has to be some separation, you have to have that time and space to miss each other.

And I think we’ve talked about this in the past, and when I do feel those moments arise of “Okay, I’m getting tired of this person”, or – look, I used to say, back in the day, I want to break up with him, every other month, like, there’s something that happens and I start to think – even 20 years later, is there something else, is there somebody that’s better, is there somebody that understands me more, is there somebody out there that I have more in common with? But I think that that’s natural. And I like to call that out because I’ve talked about it before on my podcast and I had some people that disagreed with me saying that, but it’s the truth. Not to say that there’s anything bad with me thinking that, I think we always think. The mind always wants what’s better, it’s the nature of the mind. The mind is a future-making machine, it calculated risks, it’s designed to calculate risk and keep you alive and keep you out of danger, not designed for happiness. So, that’s the nature of the mind. The mind is always going to go into future projecting or thinking about the past.

So, for me to say that those thoughts don’t come in, absolutely they come in, I don’t act on them, obviously. And if I’m having an issue, I will be the first person to express how I feel. And look, we’ve been to therapy, we’ve been on and off with therapy, like, we’ve had a lot of growth, even in the last couple of months, we’ve had huge spurts of growth. And to me, it’s like, every year I think I cannot, there’s no way I can be closer and more in love with this person. And it happens, with every year that passes, we just grow closer and closer together. And it’s the same with my friendships, it’s the same with my relationships to my family. And it could just be ageing, right, it could just be I’m getting older, I’m forgiving more, my bandwidth is my bands, as Jason Phifer would say, are widening, and I’m able to be with more than I was before. And I think that’s the beauty of time, and what you talked about before, of being patient to whatever it is that that relationship is going to bring for you in the future, right? To be able to really understand what it is that you want, to be able to voice exactly what you want to say, to be able to provide that foundation for that new experience for you. But it all starts with our ability to voice our truth.

[1:09:33] Sahara

And I think most relationships could have worked if there was better communication, it’s the communication piece. And we’re so afraid of communicating because we’re so afraid of abandonment, but then that’s actually what creates the abandonment, because we’re living a lie. 

And what inspires me about your relationship with Tori, and I love him, I call him Uncle Tor.

[1:09:53] Rosie

Yeah, she does.

[1:09:54] Sahara

But it’s like, he doesn’t do, necessarily, the breathwork, and the ice plunge, and the meditation, and the conscious thing, but he’s so conscious in his way of being. And I think, so often, us, spiritual women, we’re like “Okay, I need to find a spiritual man”, and we look for the external practices, but it’s really about can you show up in difficult times, can you hold steadfast in times where there is imbalance, you know, when it comes to family members and just situations, because it’s not just a relationship between the two of you, you’re actually in relationship with their family, you’re in relationship with their work, you’re in relationship with their friends. And he has blown me away, by the way that he has been able to just, naturally, be conscious through these experiences. Whereas a lot of men in the space, they’re wearing the freaking, you know, poncho, but they’re not walking the rattle talk.

[1:10:48] Rosie

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:10:49] Sahara

And, ultimately, only going thorough life experiences and seeing how someone shows up, will teach you those things.

So, I love it, I love having you on this Podcast, we need to do this, like, every single month.

[1:11:00] Rosie

I know!

[1:11:01] Sahara

Because we share so many, just, things in our own conversations and the person listening here, you’re our third, we love you, thanks for being our new third bestie!

[1:11:09] Rosie

Oh yeah, we’ve been looking for a third.

[1:11:11] Sahara

Yeah, we’ve been looking for a third, so, here you are. Them, whoever you are.

So, thank you so much for being on, and where can people connect with you, listen to your podcast and get your book “Radically Loved”? 

[1:11:20] Rosie

Oh my god, just go to Instagram @rosieacosta, everything’s there, my links and everything, just reach out to me, DM me.

[1:11:28] Sahara

Amazing! Well, I love you so much! I met you through this Podcast.

[1:11:32] Rosie

I know!

[1:11:32] Sahara

Guys, I met her because we were on the same list of, like, top seven podcasts, free yogis by Yoga Journal in 2017, and I was like “Hey, let’s do a little podcast swap”, and I remember, like, coming over and Tori was there, and he was, like, setting up and making us tea and I was like “Aww, such a sweet little man”. And, you know, it’s been 7 years now, which is crazy!

[1:11:53] Rosie

We’re going through our growth spur.

[1:11:55] Sahara

We’re going through…can we survive? Can we navigate?

[1:11:56] Rosie

Can we…

[1:11:57] Sahara

I feel like our sex is getting hotter.

[1:11:59] Rosie

IT is. I don’t know, those voice notes are getting pretty in depth.

[1:12:01] Sahara

They’re getting raunchier, yeah! 

[1:12:04] Sahara

Alright, well, thank you guys so much for tuning in! If you loved this Episode, please leave a review for it on the iTunes Store and I will send you my Womb Meditation, which allows you to connect to your womb’s wisdom and receive her answers. So, instead of thinking in the mind or trying to figure it out with a pro and con list, tune into your womb’s energy because she knows. So, leave a review for the Podcast, take a screenshot and email it over to me at [email protected] and you can find that in the show notes.

And be sure to share this Episode, we need more conversations like this. I feel like, had I listened to this in my early 20s, I would’ve definitely saved myself some struggles and all of us, we’re kind of going on auto-pilot when it comes to attraction. So, when we take a moment to really tune in and be like “What am I calling in? What does marriage mean to me? Who am I attracted to and where is this heading and how can this work long-term, and how can I communicate to make it work?”, it’s like, all your life problems will be solved right there, in this Episode. So, be sure to share it.

[1:13:01] Sahara

Thank you so much for tuning in and I’ll see you in the next one. 

Episode #499: The Science of Attraction + Dating As A Conscious Person with Rosie Acosta
By Sahara Rose

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