Highest Self Podcast 491: How To Have Amazing Communication+Chemistry In Relationships w/ Rachel Pringle Urb + Johann Urb

I have been sensing a shift in the collective in the past few months that a lot of couples have been separating and/or divorcing (myself included.) It’s as though we are in a renaissance of relationships due to the old relationship models no longer serving us. So how do we as spiritual people who are constantly evolving and wanting to live in our fullest truth, expression, and liberation also have a partner to move through these stages of life with us?

This week on Highest Self Podcast I have a conversation with Rachel Pringle Urb + Johann Urb, who have been my dear friends for many years, and as I have gotten to know them both individually and as a couple, I have learned about the incredible work they are doing together as a married couple. They have devoted their lives to helping couples have more intimate, juicy, rich, and meaningful relationships that value integrity, conversation, and diving into the shadows that many of us avoid in relationships.

In this episode, Rachel and Johann deep dive into their personal stories and relationship as a beautifully detailed example of what a conscious relationship can look like. They share how their marriage almost ended due to a situation that they share in detail in the episode (no spoilers!) ????

This is one of those episodes you’ll probably want to listen to more than once to take in all of the juicy wisdom! Tune in with an open heart and let me know how the episode lands on my latest Instagram post about the episode.

Connect with Rachel on Instagram here: https://instagram.com/positivepringle
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Episode #491: How To Have Amazing Communication + Chemistry In Relationships with Rachel Pringle Urb + Johann Urb
By Sahara Rose

[00:00] Sahara

Do you think that you can be in a relationship with someone who’s just, maybe this lifetime, for them, is not about self-awareness?

[00:08] Rachel

You know, I think that it’s, like, two parts. One is, if you are desiring your partner to take a journey, take it first and be the embodied reflection of that. So, when you are having these visceral shifts and changes, they get curious and want to – and without, like, nagging or being like “You need to do this”, but inviting them into that. And then, you know, to be completely honest, if they don’t want to go down that journey, and that’s what you’re wanting, it’s likely not the right person for you, because, really, for Johann and I, like, the basis, the foundation of our relationship is our practice. We’ve been doing that from the first moment that we met and it is our emotional touchstone through, literally, everything.

[00:52] Johann


[00:53] Rachel

And we are so devoted to expansion, and that’s what keeps it so exciting and so passion-filled and so exhilarating. It is never boring! I’ve never been bored!


[01:17] Sahara

Hi! I’m Sahara Rose and welcome to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you, your soul’s highest evolvement. 

[01:24] Sahara

This Podcast was created seven years ago because I wanted to have deep spiritual conversations that were also grounded, modern, fun, real, relatable, juicy, sexy. 

And what I love about this Podcast is, I get to talk with some of my closest friends, my biggest teachers, people who have really inspired me and made a difference in my life and bring them to you, on the Podcast. And today’s Episode is one of those!

[01:54] Sahara

So, Rachel and Johann have been my dear friends for many years now and I’ve gotten to know both of them individually. And they’re a married couple who have devoted their life to helping couples have more intimate, juicy, but also really rich and meaningful relationships that value integrity, conversation and diving into the shadows and depths that most of us don’t go into in relationship because we’re so afraid of the abandonment that might happen on the other side.

[02:23] Sahara

So, in this conversation, we really go in, in their personal story of how their marriage almost ended because of a situation that they’ll go into in this Episode (I don’t want to ruin it for you), but a lot of you are going to relate because, I polled on my Instagram story, how many of you guys are experiencing a heartbreak right now, and 70% of you said yes. 

So, I feel there has been a huge shift in the collective, in the past few months, especially since November or so of last year, with a lot of couples separating, divorcing, myself included, in December, and you know, it’s really a renaissance, I believe, of relationships because the old models are not working for us anymore. 

[03:03] Sahara

You know, in California, the rate of divorce is 70% as well. So, marriage, in the way that we’ve known it before, as a construct of “You and I, together forever, without really talking about what that means” is failing us. 

So, how do we, as spiritual people, that are constantly evolving, and changing, and growing, and diving deeper into ourselves, and wanting to live in full truth, and expression, and freedom, and liberation, but also have a partner to move through these stages of life with. How do we stay in relationship? And that is what today’s Episode is all about!

[03:36] Sahara

So, we really go into their relationship, as an example, and I ask the questions that I have, that I know you’re going to have as well, of “How did you navigate through that?”, “How did you know you were meant to stay together?”, “What do you do if your partner is not on a spiritual journey?”, “And what do you see for yourselves, in relationship, moving forward, with all of the shifts that are happening in the world?”

So, this is one you’re definitely going to want to relisten to! 

[03:59] Sahara

And without further ado, let’s welcome Rachel and Johann, on The Highest Self Podcast.


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[04:59] Interview

[04:59] Sahara

Welcome, Rachel and Johann, to The Highest Self Podcast, I am so excited to have you here today! We’ve spent so many hours diving into relationships and these really deep conversations. 

So, before we get into all of that, I’d love to ask you, Rachel, what makes you your highest self?

[05:14] Rachel

The first thing that comes to mind is my willingness to meet the depths of my shadow, yeah, and that journey.

[05:26] Johann

I would say, similarly, a willingness to die a death of what is no longer serving me and to be in discovery of what is. And also, for me, a big one really was realizing that God is a woman.

[05:44] Sahara

You believe God is a woman! I feel it after midnight…

[05:51] Johann

And I know that for a lot of folks out there, that’s going to really rub you in an interesting way, you know, and it certainly did me. And it’s that interesting edge, again, of this idea that God is a white dude with a beard, who’s angry and broken, but also loves you. And that’s such a big thing for folks to really understand, that God or the Divine is Goddess, is so much more than what we’ve thought or, you know, have given ourselves opportunity to, sort of, get curious about. And when we do, the magic is just endless.

[06:30] Sahara

One hundred percent, agreed! And it’s interesting, you both mention shadow and death, because those have been the biggest teachers in my path as well, especially the past few months, navigating the divorce portal, which, you guys have been incredible support systems through.

So, you guys aren’t your average couple. You’ve been together for 10 years, which, in the spiritual community, I would say is like 100 years, where 1 year is actually like 10 years, when you’re both on a growth journey, because you change and you die so much, and to keep growing and elevating together. 

So, 10 years together, you’re married, and I was reading your post that you feel more intimate than ever before, more connected, sexier than ever before. Those of you who aren’t watching on video, I recommend watching this on video because, y’all, they’re the fucking hottest couple! Like, both of them on their own, like, 10/10, but together, it’s a whole other level! So, please, go on Spotify or YouTube to just witness the magic!

And it’s so beautiful to see because you guys are willing to go places that no couple I know would go, and continue to meet each other there, and meet each other there, and choose each other again and again.

So, can you please share the story of your relationship and how you got this place?

[07:44] Rachel

You know, the first thing that comes to mind, and this happened very early on in our relationship, was exactly that, and actually, it was Johann who brought it to the table, which was, you know, he was like “I don’t want a normal relationship, I don’t want this traditional idea of what relationship or marriage looks like”, and he really made the bold statement of saying “I want us to choose this every day”. And that’s the basis of our relationship. And I think, in that choosing, it’s sort of, like, faced us directly with what’s needed in order to choose that boldly, over and over again, and the fact that we’re both, like, deeply growth mindset human beings. But it’s been a wild, wild ride, but we’re both completely committed and devoted to that in our own path, separately, and it’s one of the reasons why we get along so well, because we both have that at the forefront of our desire for this type of life.

[08:44] Johann

Yeah, to what Rachel said. You know, most folks don’t realize that we’re all running on a program, that we all have a program of what we think a relationship is or isn’t, or who we are and aren’t. And so, and it’s modelled off of something, we’re modeling our parents, our friends, our culture, our religion and we don’t, necessarily, know or are aware that we can create our own program. 

[09:12] Rachel


[09:13] Johann

And from the beginning, we – you know, again, each of us came in with our own program and we were like “Why don’t we just be in discovery of what it would look like if we created our own program?”, which we have. And, you know, for all of our clients and our students, we say the same, it’s like “Guys, you get to make your own OS, like, you decide what feels good, how you want to grow, where the boundaries are, how you want to explore all of this”. 

When we try to fit into a box that somebody else has created, or our perspective, or our understanding of that box, it’s so limiting. And so, our willingness, and certainly, continued commitment to, like I said earlier, to die a death, often, of those beliefs, of those patterns, because nothing in the universe is static.

[10:03] Rachel


[10:04] Johann

And when we disassociate with “Oh, well this is what a marriage looks like and doesn’t look like, right? You certainly don’t do this and this. You have to do all that and that”, and you take all that away and say “How can we create the most amount of alignment, and safety, and connection, and sensuality, and intimacy, right here?” And when that’s the OS, that’s what you operate out of, it’s infinitely enlivening and exciting, and you will come up against, you know, often, the opportunity to transform.

[10:40] Sahara

So, what I’ve noticed happen for myself, and I think for a lot of people, when you enter into a relationship, you so badly want to please the other person, that you end up just, kind of, agreeing with things for the sake of keeping the relationship because you’re so afraid of that fear of abandonment, of “What if I say I want the relationship to be like this”, and they’re like “No”, and then you, like, lose this beautiful spark and then it’s that, you know, that honeymoon, oxytocin stage, and you do anything to keep this going.

So, first of all, when did you bring up having your own agreements in the relationship, and what did that conversation look like?

[11:12] Rachel

It was very, like, very early on, like from the very beginning. You know, Johann was very, like, expressed in not wanting a traditional, he’s also been married before, and I had, Johan was my first real relationship. You know, I had dated maybe someone for maybe six months, but before that it was like fleeting. And I definitely had that program, I came in with that and I’m grateful for it because it allowed me to have that journey of, like, people-pleaser into this level of, like, deeply empowered. I think that he was there much earlier than I was, it took me a couple of years to get to the place of being able to say what I really wanted, but I was still, like, bold. I was the first one who said “I love you”, who asked to move in. You know, I’m the type of person that believes in going after what we want. You know, I’m a big personality, I’m an intense person, I want people to know that right from the beginning so that they can know what they’re getting into vs. like, the playing of the game.

So, it worked always, but then, like, four years in, is when we really started redefining, like, the deep, gunk stuff and, like, reprogramming together.

[12:30] Johann

Yeah. Man, there’s so much to cover and to go back. I keep remembering iterations of ourselves and who we were and you know. For me, having been married before, freedom was such a huge thing, right? And so, from the very beginning, I was very honest with Rachel and I was like “Listen, I do not want to do the dance that most people are doing”, and I was like, you know, divorce rates are crazy, they’re over 70%, why is that? If it’s this thing that everybody thinks that they want, you know, and the way that it’s set up. And to what you said Sahara, it’s like, you know, we, often times, don’t have the conversations that are the breakthrough, dying of death conversations, because we’re so afraid to lose the connection and it’ll destroy this image of who we are projecting.

You know, often times, this PR person we’re pretending to be vs. sharing our deepest, darkest fears and secrets. And this is, again, where conscious communication, what we call co-devotional communication, comes in. How can I speak to it so that it doesn’t fester? Because when it festers and it’s living inside of you and you don’t say it, you’re on this automatic thing of thinking, of this is how it’s supposed to go, yet, a big, huge part of you is not expressed. Even if that thing is seemingly small and tiny, it holds so much power, and way more than all this airy fluff, you know. It literally will derail your direction and your ship, and will, like, sink your ship, and then you’ll wander, like, why people cheat or why people, you know, aren’t being honest or fully forthcoming, and it’s like, how can you have that conversation in the moment when it arises, or shortly after, and through that, create trust, and intimacy, and connection? Without that, I think it’s, sadly, all doomed to fail.

And for us, we didn’t have the hard, hard conversations till four years in…

[14:38] Rachel

Which is after we were engaged.

[14:41] Johann

Yeah. And often times, that’s usually when it happens, or with a lot with our clients, at least. It’s like, you commit and you’re like “Alright, we’re engaged or we’re married”, and that’s when they…

[14:49] Sahara

It’s like Ta-da, here’s all the stuff! Right!

[14:52] Johann

You know. And so, it’s, in a way, like, by design. And for us, it took some major, major upheavals, falling in love with other people, you know, getting intimate with other people, allowing us just to be fully, fully confused, and through that being fully, fully expressed. 

And it was, in a way, like we’d had the break-up conversation.

[15:15] Rachel

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[15:17] Johann

You know, but we decided to stay together.

[15:20] Sahara

So, I want to go into what happened, this 4 or 5-year mark, because we’ve had conversations around a lot of people in our shared community, spiritual community and I think globally, are separating, divorcing, breaking up right now.

And you know, they say, often times, in a relationship, the test is if, you know, if one of both people fall in love or, you know, with someone else, and infidelity is a huge issue, but also, I’m, like, questioning monogamy, and I’m questioning marriage, and I’m questioning these constricts as well. 

So, I’m curious if you guys would like to share a little bit about the situation and the new agreements that you created as a result of it?

[16:00] Rachel

Yeah. It was, you know, Johann went away to shoot a movie and fell in love with his co-star. And, you know, sort of me being the scorpionic human that I am, like, now, I know what a pivotal role I played in that, because that gave me the permission to also, then, therefore open up and have my own experience with another married couple. And it was just this, this massive explosion into, like, what was in the underbelly the entire time.

And I think that, we stuck through it in such an…like, when I think back on how we navigated that, I’m, like, so in awe of how we did it because it was so devastating, especially because we had just gotten engaged, and especially because boundaries and agreements were broken. You know, there were moments when both of us did that. And it’s almost like we needed to do that in order to shake up our entire world, our known universe, and therefore speak to what was shook up. And I think, even more so, the thing I continuously get interested with is that why, why did we do that, what was the imputes behind it? And that I get so curious about, and that just led us into, like, this depth of conversation how we weren’t feeling met. And to exactly what you just said, like, playing these roles of just trying to please each other and trying to keep in the sweet pocket of, like “I’m going to do anything I can to stay connected”. And for both of us to feel what it was like to not be connected – I mean, for me, like, it was such an exhilarating moment of like “Who am I outside of this relationship?” And I’m so grateful, and it was like this surgent of sexuality, of sensuality, and then, from that space, I still wanted to be with him, and vice versa, and it led us down this, like, really freaking, crazy interesting path where we had to really, like, hold each other as we both died (and both of us died multiple times). And the fact that we did it with such grace and with such love, because we weren’t focused on what happened, we focused on why it happened. 

[18:26] Johann

Beautifully said, my love! And you know, we went there, like, we both went there, went all the way to the other side and, you know… And I want to bring attention to the beauty, when you look at it from the macro perspective, which is, you can’t have expansion without contraction. 

And I think that a lot of the stories that we’re told about marriage and being in, you know, sacred partnership, or just married. You know, we see in the movies, it’s like, you ride off into the sunset, white picket fences, happily ever after, nothing ever happens, you’re just happy.

[19:05] Sahara

Till death do us part.

[19:06] Johann

Yeah. And it’s that narrative, is so deep. And so, when contractions do inevitably happen, we misdiagnose them, we go like “Oh, this is not supposed to be, this is something wrong with me or my partnership or my partner, or whatever, life”, instead of “Wow, this is an opportunity for me to face some darkness, you know, some of my blind spots, some of the things that are in the sphere, that I haven’t spoken to, acknowledged”. And when we change the narrative, the perspective on it, it becomes this empowering experience.

Again, we didn’t know any of this when we went through it. And so, I really, like, want to honor us for still being able to make it through it. But that’s what got us really curious about, how could we do it, because we knew this is going to happen again, contraction will happen again.

[19:54] Rachel

Yeah, it will inevitably appear, yeah.

[19:56] Johann

So, how can we go about it with more grace? And that’s what’s gotten us really interested in the science of that, and learning to welcome the contraction, to celebrate the contraction. Even in the midst of craziest of the contractions, to infuse the breath, and awareness, and gratitude, knowing that this will lead us into the most beautiful expansion we couldn’t even dream of before.

[20:21] Rachel

You know, and also, the awareness too, that like, I believe that if one person in a partnership is feeling contracted, the other one is as well. And so, it’s like bringing in, you know, perhaps, Johann’s story that time was “I feel unsatisfied”. I was also unsatisfied, right? And so, that is, it’s, like, really asking us to get honest because, often times, in our society, we want to put ourselves in a disempowered state or a victim state, like “This happened to me”, but we are in partnership, we’re playing this dance. And when we can really take that – it doesn’t mean everyone has to stay together, that’s not it, it’s just knowing that you are playing your part, and that’s so much more empowering in that, to decide like “Oh, if I can create that, then I can create something different”. 

[21:09] Johann

And we’re constantly initiating each other, you know, into, hopefully, further and further iterations of opening and discovery. 

And to what Rachel said, you know, our philosophy, throughout it, always, if we’re not meant to be together, then this, we’re so grateful that we chose each other for this initiation.

[21:32] Rachel


[21:32] Johann

Into better versions of ourselves, and really respecting each other and honoring each other, and having the willingness, having the courage to speak our deepest, darkest, like, most scary truths to each other. And then, when you do that, the freedom that follows, the attraction that follows, the connection, the passion that follows, is insane. All the aliveness that you thought you needed to look for outside of the relationship, is all of a sudden in the relationship.

[22:06] Rachel


[22:07] Johann

Because you said that unspeakable, crazy thing. You know, and if we want to get more specific, you know, for me, specifically, at the time, in the beginning, was like, I was saying and what I was feeling was that Rachel was like the safe girl, you know. She was this rosy color, glasses, safe girl, people-pleasing girl, and I was like “That’s not what I want. I want a – this version of Rachel, who is just, today, a badass, fucking powerful, fearless, fully, you know, sensually, sexually embodied version of herself”, right? And in order to get there, the rupture was necessary, and for me to become a trustable man and be able to, you know, talk about my infidelity and my, you know, fears and desires, I needed, also, for the rupture to be so huge that I had nothing else to lose. 

And again, often times, this is when people go separate ways, right? Instead of going “This happened for us”, and especially in retrospect, we’re like “Wow, we passed the people so perfectly”, you know, everyone was exactly – the stakes needed to be so high for us to be able to be like “Okay, there’s no other, the ledge is so tiny, I have to jump”, you know. And we did, and here we are.

[23:27] Sahara

Ah, fully body resonance with everything you just shared! And, you know, I think that sometimes it takes that being on the very cusp of the edge, of just like “Okay, we’re either doing this and bearing our whole hearts or bust”, because it’s like, you just can’t go back into contraction after something like that. 

And it’s funny because we think, by being that perfect trophy versions of ourselves, which was one of the programmings I realized I had running, of like, because my dad was very narcissistic, so I learned how to appeal to narcissistic men and be like the perfect girl, perfect wife, perfect everything. But then, you think you’re going to get more intimacy that way, but you’re actually, like, releasing yourself from that. It’s from saying the scary thing that you’re either going to, like, lean all the way into together or it’s like “Okay, this truth is something that I can’t be with”, and at least you’re honest with it.

[24:18] Rachel and Johann


[24:20] Sahara

So, what made you guys choose to stay together? What was that decision-making process like? Because for a lot of people, that’s the big question.

[24:28] Rachel


[24:29] Johann

I want to speak to that too, before we go into it, is. This was also not, like “Wow, we choose each other now”, it was a long process.

[24:38] Rachel

Oh my gosh, it was a long process.

[24:39] Johann

So, I just want to reiterate for folks that are listening, you’re like “Oh, you just do this and it’s, like, it’s all fixed and it’s all…”, no, this is years in the making, of choosing each other and making sure this is actually what we want to do.

[24:53] Rachel

Yeah. And also, you know, like, the skillset we had then is definitely not what we have now. And I really want to honor both of us because, even in the midst of that, we handled it so beautifully, and that’s part of, like, our design. We’ve never been, you know, we’ve never called each other names, we’ve never yelled at each other, that’s never…

[25:17] Johann

You’ve yelled at me a couple of times.

[25:18] Rachel

I have. I yelled at him a handful of times when it was necessary. He’s never yelled at me, in ten years. So, we handled it so well, and in the midst of it, we held each other while, like, he flailed and was like “I want to be with this other woman, I want to be with both of you”, and I was like “I’m here for all of it”, and then when I flailed and was in love with this, you know, other person, he was like “I’m here for it”. So, it was, like, so beautiful to experience the depth to which – oh, it makes me so emotional – like, because we’re both seekers and we are on the paths that we’ve chosen to be on, even in the devastation, we still wanted to be there for each other. 

And, like, I remember this very specific moment when we were on the couch and I was, like, laying in his arms, and I was so angry at him, I was so angry, and at the same time there was like this visceral feeling in me that I was home. And it was, I think the most important thing to recognize, for me and my view of him, was like, I knew that he was running a program and a trauma, and this was where it came from. And it wasn’t like, you know, he wasn’t trying to do this out of malice, like, you know, it didn’t happen over and over again, it happened two times and it was like, he brought it to the surface and I was like “Oh, this is the point at which I have to help him heal, like, this is that moment”, and he keeps showing up. And that’s how our relationship has always been, it’s like, even, no matter what’s come up, when it’s been super challenging, both of us have always had the willingness to choose to keep going, and it’s been consistent. And so, it’s like, there was that, I could, even though I was broken, still, somewhat, fell held.

[27:18] Johann

And also, we didn’t ever grip each other. Our story was like “If there’s a person that is more right for you than I am, I celebrate that and I honor that, and I will set you free”, right, so there wasn’t this thing of – even though we, you know, at the time, Rachel still wanted to explore an open container, I felt unsafe, I asked to close the container, to be monogamous, and even though, you know, I would say that, in some ways the emotional container wasn’t closed for seven years, because she still felt like she needed that as a back-up plan, as a safety plan, in some ways, I knew that that was part of my opportunity to hold her, to make her feel safe, that I actually do choose her. And, you know, if I wasn’t that guy for her, then I would’ve celebrated releasing you back into the wild, you know, because we love each other so much. And through that experience, that four years, what was brought, or what was created, was such massive respect for each other in the way that we got to hold each other through that death portal and rebirth portal, that the respect is such that – I think we still have that, you know, in our filed, that same belief, that however, we, very strongly believe that we’re designed for each other, like, literally made for each other.

[28:54] Rachel


[28:54] Johann

Because it gets better and better forever and forever, we’re like “I don’t see this happening with everybody else”.

[29:01] Sahara

It’s so beautiful that you were able to alchemize such a painful – like, for the feminine, that feeling of feeling, like, unchosen and unimportant, and that the love of your life is in love with someone else, it’s like your living nightmare. And it takes a lot, I think it also takes a lot of courage to stay because society tells you “Oh, well, if…”, now that with all these Instagrams about being a high-value woman, this is like the key term, it feels like “A high-value woman walks away the moment there’s even a sniff of a red flag”, and it’s like, these things like that and you’re like “Oh, shit!” But then, also, men are healing and they’re not perfect and you wouldn’t be in this container that you are in right now. 

And it’s almost like – what I notice happen a lot in break-ups too, is that the woman, often, gets more into her sensuality. Like, that was the case for me because it’s like, you needed – it’s almost like, when we’re in a relationship, we cut ourselves off from our sexuality and it’s like only about that person, we go into wife mode. It’s like, for someone reason we’re trained, it’s like, now we’re going grocery shopping, we’re doing to-do lists, we’re doing this, we’re doing that.

And I noticed myself, I was 24 and I very quicky went into that because I was like “I want to seal the deal”, you know.

[30:10] Rachel

Keep this man!

[30:12] Sahara

Exactly! Because you have this idea of, once you’re married, now you’re safe, it’s a done deal. And for me, it took the divorce to go deeper into my sensuality, and you know, for you, having this break-up. And then, often, for me, they’re in their testosterone phase and different women, and then it takes a really beautiful, empowered woman that meets you, and potentially losing her to be “Oh my gosh, like, is this worth it?”

And you said it brought you more into being, like, committed, and actually you wanting to have monogamous relationship and you being like “I don’t know, maybe we should be a little bit more open”. 

[30:49] Johann

Yeah. I am, you know, and I know that so many women out there don’t want to hear this because you all have been going through it, you know, for a long, long time, in this world, in a way of, made for men and run by men. And I’ve got to tell you, you guys are the answer! You know, us, we’re not able to see that stuff, and you know, men are so much more, we tend to be in our heads and the programming is so generations and generations deep. 

And the way that Rachel really impacted me was through my heart, which was so shut off and so closed off, I was not, you know, I was accessing my lower chakras, very active – brain, very active, this was just like a dead spot, like, there was nothing there. And it was her really bypassing the intellect, I wouldn’t say bypassing, but not using the intellect as a way to, sort of, handle the things that came up or really speak from her heart to my heart. And because of it, it – you know, love is, I believe, what everything is made out of. So, it’s the pathway, there’s no, you can’t block love.

[32:08] Rachel


[32:08] Johann

And so, it penetrates so deeply. And her love is so powerful, and that’s what really got me to feel and to open and to understand and activate myself to a potential that I didn’t even know was possible.

[32:26] Rachel


[32:26] Johann

Truly! I had no clue! So, for you ladies out there listening, even though it might be difficult, especially when you feel you’ve been wronged, you know, by the masculine, please, please, if you can, drop into your hearts and just do your best to love those dudes and be compassionate. That doesn’t mean you don’t have boundaries, that doesn’t mean you…

[32:47] Rachel

No, it means you do have boundaries.

[32:49] Johann

Yeah, very clear boundaries.

[32:50] Rachel

And that’s what’s actually being asked for, like, we need to switch the roles. And I really, to what Johann is expressing, I believe that we are the leaders and we lead with love, and we lead with deep, profound, embodied love, and that’s what this world is seeking, that’s what the men are seeking. I totally agree with you!

That’s what I knew in that moment, I, viscerally, could feel it, I was like, he, from a little boy, that’s what this moment is, you don’t trust the feminine and you’re acting out because you don’t believe that I actually care about you, and you don’t want to open up your heart and let my love in because if you do, you feel like you are going to die and everything is going to end.

[33:29] Johann

And the belief I also had was, I will be manipulated, I would be controlled, I will not know myself. 

[33:36] Rachel

I’ll lose myself.

[33:37] Johann

Yeah, I’ll lose myself, I’ll had over the keys and I’ll become her little bitch, you know, which is not all, by the way, what happened. But that was the fear that I think, certainly I was faced with. And I think a lot of guys are like, you know, they’re talking to their bros or fathers or whatever, they’re like “Yo, you can’t let the woman she’s going to walk you like a dog, ride you like a horse”, whatever, it’s this narrative, this fear we have all in our hearts.

[34:03] Rachel

It’s a fear, yeah, because we don’t want to be exposed and vulnerable. And the thing that we’re missing…

[34:09] Johann

Vulnerability is weakness, which is literally the opposite of what it actually is, which is courage.

[34:12] Sahara

And that shadow feminine of manipulation.

[34:15] Johann


[34:16] Rachel

Exactly! And that’s the thing you know. I heard this thing the other day and I think it’s so poignant, which is, you know, why are we, if we’ve been hurt, why are we then, therefore, choosing to hurt? And it’s, you know, we’re recycling this energy all the time vs. really stepping into leadership, which is to what Johann expressed, like, it means boundaries, but it means calling each other forward with love, with consciousness, with devotion. And the moments that we did that are such profound, pivotal moments that I hold in my blueprint that, when I think about that, I’m like “Fuck! That is the most powerful version of me, which is, I’m not going to listen to your illusion, I’m not going to buy into your fear and your trauma, I’m going to choose here and show you what real love is”. And I’m going to let go of the story, which is “I’m not good enough or I’m not, I’m not”, because, really, like, all those experiences, they’re not about us, they’re about what the other person is doing, you know, and like, can we let go of that story and choose to really come into partnership for what it’s there for, which is to love each other open, to heal the deep shit, because we all have it. We all have stuff with our parents, authority figures, like, our formative years have fucked all of us, no matter if you have amazing parents or not, there’s something in our way, it’s like by design, so that we have this transformational experience of really choosing to be the creators of our experience. 

So, it’s – like, we need to do it through love and let go of the story that’s keeping us separate, because we don’t want separation, we want connection.

[35:55] Sahara

Johann, were you on a spiritual journey at this time? Like, were you open to healing, and therapy, and things like that?

[36:02] Johann

Yes! I got on a spiritual journey at a very young age of 14 and also, for a long time, it was very much a heady journey. You know, it was this traditional, sort of, how I interpreted it, I should say, traditional Eastern philosophy, you know, feelings are kind of stupid, humanity, this whole thing is just Mayan, illusion, so I was like “Oh, I’m just going to be above it, I’m just going to observe it all and not give any credence to my feelings”. And so, I completely, again, by design, cut myself off from my heart and feelings. I made up a story that they’re dumb (you know, big mistake, obviously, beautiful learning). And then, at the age of 29, I was in therapy, I was in acting class and I also had a girlfriend, finally it was like not putting up with any of my bullshit, so it was like a trifecta (my therapist was a woman, my acting teacher was a woman). And really, like, the trifecta of that helped me begin to crack the façade and the belief systems. And then, by the time Rachel came along, I was certainly way more open to not always needing to be right. It’s through my first divorce (at 33), where I really saw, it was like a full death portal where I saw my life flash in front of my eyes, and my therapist was actually there for it as well, and my best friend Paul. And I could really see how I was using these spiritual terms and these philosophies as a way to justify blaming and not taking responsibility. And it was so profound and so big.

And so, when Rachel came along, I was definitely seeking partnership and ready to not just do these, like, shallow little dives into the pool, but really, like, dive in, you know. And I was, for a long time, at the beginning part of the relationship, really like, looking for drama, I was like “Where’s the drama?”, I was bored, I was like “This is so vanilla”. And so, I always find something wrong, there’s always something that I could focus on, you know, that wasn’t in me, but rather, in her, that was off, you know. And through this, I want to fast-forward in time, now that what we teach and what we’re doing our first teacher training in pyramid breath method, through this experience, was birthed a new type of a practice that isn’t a static practice, a traditional type of a practice, but is very much, you know, expressed, and alive, and tantric, embodied, and you know…

[38:49] Rachel

Wild Shakthi.

[38:50] Johann

And again, to me, as a very masculine, Eastern European man, that would’ve been, just like “Hmm, yeah, never!” And now, to daily be in that embodiment of cultivating the connection between the masculine and the feminine, and then realizing how much bigger it makes both sides, how much more of a man, a masculine man, I’ve become a trustable man, I’ve become because of it. And again, for me, having that realization that divine is feminine and all of the expression that I see around me is the feminine expression of the divine, it completely changed my relationship to the feminine because, before, the feminine was just like the messy, you know, unpredictable, manipulative that’s the story that I made up.

[39:41] Rachel

That’s the program you were running.

[39:42] Johann


[39:43] Rachel

And you had been conditioned into.

[39:45] Johann

The feminine is this beautiful divine expression of aliveness. And so, completely different way of relating to the feminine, within myself, right? All the stories I have around my own feelings and aliveness and outside as well.

[39:59] Sahara

I ask that because, I wonder, for people listening who are maybe in a similar situation… I ask that because a lot of questions I get from people are “My partner’s not on a spiritual journey, he’s not willing to go to therapy, he’s not willing…you know, I say these terms to him, he won’t listen”, so, what would you suggest for someone like that, who, you know – I think a lot of women, we try to initiate, but you can only take someone as far as they want to take themselves. Would you suggest, then, leaving, if that person’s not open or do you think that you can be in a relationship with someone who’s just, maybe this lifetime for them is not about self-awareness?

[40:42] Rachel

You know, I think that, it’s like two parts. One is, if you are desiring your partner to take a journey, take it first and be the embodied reflection of that. So, when you are having these visceral shifts and changes, they get curious and want to…and without, like, nagging or being like “You need to do this”, but inviting them into that. And then, you know, to be completely honest, if they don’t want to go down that journey, and that’s what you’re wanting, it’s likely not the right person for you because, really, for Johann and I, like, the basis, the foundation of our relationship is our practice. We’ve been doing that from the first moment that we met and it is our emotional touchstone through, literally everything. And we are so devoted to expansion, and that’s what keeps it so exciting, and so passion-filled, and so exhilarating. It is never boring! I’ve never been bored!

[41:40] Johann

I would say that, luckily, there’s so many different ways to explore that. You know, one way, if you’re like “Hey, my partner doesn’t want to do yoga with me or go to therapy”, maybe they would be interested in doing a ketamine journey or a ketamine therapy.

[41:53] Rachel

Or breathwork.

[41:54] Johann

Or breathwork, like, something like transformational breathwork or…

[41:58] Rachel

Or transcendental meditation.

[41:59] Johann

Yeah, or maybe they’re willing to get into an ice bath, and maybe they’re willing to, you know, try pyramid breath, maybe they’re willing to…

[42:08] Rachel

Do the Hoffman process.

[42:09] Johann

Yeah, so, there’s a lot of different – often times, we don’t know of all the options out there. And so, if we’re like “I found this one way, I want you to do this one way”, and that doesn’t work, and we get disheartened vs. really curious about, is there something that our partner might be more open to.

[42:29] Rachel


[42:30] Johann

And then, given all those options a go, and seeing maybe, you know, taking them to an ecstatic dance, or taking them to a yin yoga class, or taking them to, you know, watch a documentary together, reading a book together, what’s the avenue that gives them the impetus to begin to open and to question.

And if you’ve tried those things, and it’s not there, I think you either have to go “I accept you as you are and I accept this is what my life will be like, so I can live without resentment”, or you go like “Thank you so much for this experience, it’s time for me to find somebody who’s in alignment with what we desire”, because we have the same goals, same desires…

[43:13] Rachel

Yeah, same values.

[43:13] Johann

We want the same things in the world, and, you know, we have areas that we need to work on and work on, however, what we desire out of life is the same. And because of it, we’re constantly driving towards that, with, like, glee and joy.

[43:31] Rachel


[43:32] Johann

You know, and excitement. We read books together at the same time, or listen to books, and, like, we’re constantly going “Oh my god, you need to do this thing, and this, and this”, so, we’re constantly experimenting together, so it never gets stale.

[43:43] Rachel

Ever, yeah!

[43:45] Johann


[43:46] Sahara

You know, as you share this, you know, in my previous marriage, we did not have the same values, we did not have – I would, sometimes – we would have conversations like “What does your ideal life look like?”, I’m like “I don’t know, I’d live in Bali or Costa Rica, and the jungle, with the waterfall, and there’s community, there’s drumming and there’s dancing”, and like, that’s how I see my life, and he’s like “I’d love to live, like, in Ibiza and go to trans clubs every night, and you know, like, in the underground house scene”, I’m like “That is so not my reality”. But in my mind, I’m like “Well, I guess we’ll have to find a middle ground, that’s not your ideal, that’s not my ideal reality, we’ll have to find, you know, maybe it’s the north part of Ibiza or something like that”. And you know, I think there’s a beauty to compromise, right? Of like a, it’s not always going to be exactly what you want, but it’s almost like God was like “Stop playing small”, it’s like “If this is what you really want and this partnership will not allow you to have that, then it’s like, what are you going to choose.

[44:41] Rachel


[44:41] Sahara

You know, being, like, in this, kid of, met relationship and not having your dharma and your soul’s fullest expression, or to lose this connection and be grateful for it, but now, have the freedom to live your soul’s fullest expression. 

The fear that shows up in me, and I know, probably people listening too, is like “Well, what if I never find that person, who wants the same, who also wants to do the Bali dancing thing?” Or, often times, it’s like, that’s so feminine, so only, like, a really feminine guy would want to do that. I mean, I don’t know if you guys have been to Ubud, Bali?

[45:13] Rachel

No, not yet.

[45:15] Sahara

Not the best for dating, you know! (I’m sure there’s great people there too). So, do you believe that there is – I’m curious your take on soulmates, twin flames, do you believe there’s, like, this one person out there for you, or several people out there for you, or it’s always just a choice and an inevitable dance of compromise?

[45:33] Rachel

I think it’s sort of, like, a mixture, and I so, I love this inquiry because I think it’s so present and there’s this, like, scarcity mindset that we carry around with dating, like “I’m going to settle because I’m never going to find anything else”. And I think that, you know, for those of us who are listening to this, you’re obviously in the work, you’re choosing this and I, for us both, like, continuously using your consciousness to serve you vs. enslave you, right? There are 8 billion people in the world, right, the more that you step into who you are, the more that you magnetize someone towards that. Now, it might not be exactly what you think, and I love that you express that, because I believe, so deeply, in compromising, and compromising can be such a, kind of, like, a dirty word, you’re like “I’m never going to…”, there is that, like “I’m not compromising myself, someone’s just got to meet me”, but it’s not compromise in, like, a lower vibration, it is, you are creating something brand new with another human, and the thing that we’ve found together is otherworldly.

Now, I love to ecstatic dance, Johann is not, he’s not the most ecstatic dancer, but I get my fix on my own, it’s what I teach, you know, I do it with my women, like, there are all these different ways that we can find that really meet ourselves. Do I believe that Johann and I have done this before, in many lifetimes? Absolutely! We’ve done past life regressions, I’ve seen it, I felt it, I love this human so much, and I also believe that if anything were to happen, that we would find other people, like, I believe that because it empowers me and it keeps me trusting life and it keeps me meeting life vs. having, sort of, like a fatalistic, if I miss my person, I’m missing it forever. You are always going to get what’s meant for you, you know. And really, like, inviting people to keep discovering who it is that they are and how they want to be met, and asking the Universe to show it to you. 

[47:44] Johann

Yeah, I would say that it’s definitely a choice, right, and everything is a choice. And I believe that the more that we immerse ourselves in these practices that really changes our resonance, the more likely you are to attract “magically”, your tribe, those people, you find yourself in places, in different parts of the world where, magically, that other person, or people, are also attracted to. And you know, Rachel and I aren’t each other’s type. So, when we first met…

[48:21] Sahara

Oh wow, because you guys look alike.

[48:22] Rachel

I know!

[48:25] Johann

Yeah, so, we’re not…

[48:26] Sahara

You’re a mix. You’re half black, which is crazy because you don’t look it, and you’re Eastern European.

[48:31] Johann

Yeah. We’re each other’s type now, like, we’re obsessed with each other, but in the beginning, that wasn’t the case.

[48:36] Rachel

At all!

[48:38] Johann

But there was this under…

[48:40] Sahara

So, if you guys were on a dating app, you would’ve missed each other because you’re only going on your type on these apps. 

[48:43] Rachel

Very, very likely! And we were both, like, sort of – I remember the moment that I first saw him, I was like “This guy is so not my type”, but I was like, in my, you know, I just gotten to LA, I was like “I’m just going to date everybody!” And then, when I saw him and he didn’t, like, I couldn’t get his attention, energetically, and I liked it. I was like “Hmm, this is a hard one, let me go deeper into this”, and it was, like, it was energy that was the thing, which, so, yes, I agree with that. We get too trapped in what we think we want.

[49:23] Johann

Yeah, we have these ideas of, you know, what my partner’s going to look like, what they’re going to do, they’re going to be, you know, they’ve read these books and done these practices.

[49:31] Sahara

So, you guys didn’t write lists or anything?

[49:33] Rachel

I am a deep advocate of the list, but my list is very different, it’s a feeling, how you want to feel with the person vs. what you’re…like “Oh, I want someone who’s rich”, because a lot of women have that, and it’s very different, someone who is rich vs. someone who is ambitions and who has a willingness to constantly grow. You can lose money in an instant, right?

[49:58] Johann

And also, you know, with that is, like, someone who’s in integrity.

[50:02] Rachel


[50:03] Johann

And what we have found, like, we’ve both gone through these iterations of ourselves in our career, and what we’re creating now, and co-creating now, feels like, for the first time in our lives, we’re actually doing the thing that we were put on this earth to do.

[50:21] Rachel

And we would have never known that in the beginning.

[50:23] Johann


[50:24] Sahara

It’s your dharma together and that’s really the siddhi, the highest form of relationship is when it can be dharmic.

[50:30] Rachel and Johann


[50:31] Johann

And that’s what it feels like. And so, that’s what I would say, for the folks out there that are listening, is like, it may – the iterations of yourselves and the other, that when you first meet, who you get to become is what you’re looking forward to vs. – again, if someone’s static and, you know, someone’s like “I’m a grown-up and this is, I’ve stopped learning, I’m, now, this person”, move on. And if there’s a willingness there to question, to explore, to be in discovery, please stay because there’s so much. Like, once you get into the habit of it and you get to go through a few, like, you know, mini deaths and to rebirths, you’re like “Wow, that’s incredible!”

[51:13] Rachel

That’s what creates trust and intimacy. And I think, to what you said before, the dating world, with the apps and with what’s happening on Instagram and, like, the amount of, from my perspective, noise that’s out there, that’s really…

[51:27] Johann


[51:28] Rachel

That’s really detrimental to people’s hearts because you’re not in exploration. Like, love is unexplainable and it is a journey that is so magical and it involves, like, you know, there’s that quote that’s like “Being with someone long term is like going to a thousand funerals”, it is that, and that’s why it’s so fulfilling and what keeps you sustained and what keeps the passion alive, but we are so stuck, as a society, on attracting our perfect partner. And what you’re really saying, from my perspective, when you’re, like “Oh, well, I met this guy and no, he’s not it”, you’re basically, what if you’re not perfect yet? What is that saying about you, how are you holding yourself in that? It’s like, where can we be in a growth mindset forever, be in discovery forever, let love evolve forever? That’s what consciousness is, it’s meant to evolve and expand, that’s what relationship does, and when we do that, and we allow it, it is this like this really juicy, incredible ride that will make that honeymoon phase, that happens in the beginning, last your entire relationship.

[52:33] Sahara

And I think, looking – like, what I’ve shifted, energetically, within myself is, instead of looking for qualities about that person, looking for qualities of your shared relationship, right? So, for example, I’m very creative and artistic, so, my type has always been musicians because they’re creative and artistic people, but it’s like, well, what if they’re not a musician, but are dynamic, is creative and artistic, we create art together, and it’s maybe an interest or a hobby of theirs, but it’s not what they do with their entire career because it’s like, ultimately, we’re attracted to the things that we want to embody. And we can look at each of those people as a muse, an energy that we’re wanting to step into, so, I’m like “Okay, how am I not totally evoking my inner musician? Okay, let me sign up for musician production classes, let me focus more on my dj-ing, let me do more of these things”, and then you witness the people that you’re attracted to shifts because you’re no longer needing that fix from something outside of you and then you’re witnessing “Okay, what is my next area of growth? Look at who you’re attracted to right now”.

[53:28] Johann


[53:28] Rachel

Yeah, it’s you know, like, Johann and I are very, very different, you know. We have the same values and the same, like, desires, but we are very different human beings and that’s what makes it interesting You know, it’s like, I believe that we want to be challenged because that’s what keeps us growing and it’s like, if – you know, people are always like “Well, I just want like…”, they’ll say to your best friend like “I want someone who’s just like Johann”, well, you don’t have sex, like, there’s all these different factors. It’s like, let go of the idea completely and just be willing to follow the energy of your body, right, beyond your eyes. Close your eyes, what does it feel like to be – you know, when we first met and we would hug, it was like, wow, the hugs were something I never experienced before, and that’s what captured me.

[54:23] Sahara

From the very beginning?

[54:24] Rachel

From the very beginning!

[54:25] Sahara

Okay, so, here’s my question for you. So, a lot of people say that the relationships that last the most long-term, often don’t have a spark or a connection at the beginning because that spark can be trauma-bonding. But I’m like “Why would you keep going on a date with someone that you don’t feel a connection towards?”, I just, I wouldn’t do that. So, I’m curious, your take on it because it seems like you guys did have that attraction even though it wasn’t…

[54:48] Johann

No, no, it was a spiritual connection and it was an energetic connection.

[54:53] Rachel

Home connection.

[54:55] Johann

Yeah, it felt very, very good. I was like, I think for maybe, just, because she was also dating a friend of mine when we first met, it’s like, I think we’re supposed to be friends, because this connection is unreal.

[55:07] Sahara

Were you guys physically attracted to each other?

[55:09] Rachel

I think that, like, obviously he’s attractive, I’m attractive, I was like “Oh, interesting”, but again, not typical. There wasn’t this…

[55:17] Johann

There wasn’t a trauma bonding.

[55:18] Sahara

You weren’t, like, flirting from the beginning?

[55:20] Rachel

We were definitely flirting.

[55:21] Johann

Oh, yeah! Yeah, we were flirty, but you know, we’re kind of flirty with everybody.

[55:25] Rachel

Yeah, it’s true.

[55:26] Johann

So, it’s more like, mmm, playing this fun game.

[55:28] Rachel

Yeah, there was like a rapport that was, like, exciting and exhilarating when we met each other, but it was not this, like, chemical chemistry.

[55:38] Johann

Yeah, like “I need to fuck you right now, I need to rip your clothes off”.

[55:42] Rachel

Nope. Yeah.

[55:44] Johann

That’s something that we actually struggled with for many, many years.

[55:48] Sahara

Do you think that feeling of, you meet someone and it’s that instant connection, that’s trauma bonding?

[55:53] Rachel


[55:54] Johann

A lot of times.

[55:55] Rachel

And I think there’s alignment…

[55:58] Sahara

Because I rode the first night I met my ex, met my husband, it was like, I’m like “Oh, shit!”

We’re used to the movies and things like that of like, just, when you know, you know, love at first sight.

[56:08] Johann

I said it on our first date.

[56:09] Rachel

Yeah, you did, yeah.

[56:11] Johann

To my friend, when Rachel went into the bathroom, I think I just met my wife. And…

[56:16] Rachel

It’s because it was different.

[56:18] Johann

It was because we met at a meditation retreat and the energy was so palpable and powerful, and we didn’t have sex for at least a month after being together.

[56:29] Rachel

Yeah, and seeing each other every single day.

[56:31] Johann

Yeah, and the sex was alright for – again, the sex was alright for many years, it wasn’t mind-blowing for many years, now it’s mind-blowing, which, again is like, we’re ten years in, you know, and it still gets better and better. We just had one of our biggest breakthroughs, like, four days ago where we had that really uncomfortable conversation how we each feel like we’re not being met.

[56:56] Rachel

Well, no, because, this is good and I think this is important in relationship, is like, we had this beautiful conversation around sexuality and the thing that I said that I think was really pivotal was like “I’m not, not satisfied, I’m satisfied and I still want more”. And that it is – a lot of couples grapple with that.

[57:14] Johann

That’s called non-satisfied, by the way.

[57:16] Rachel

No, it’s not, baby, don’t do that.

[57:19] Sahara

Well, satisfied is satisfied.

[57:20] Rachel

Yeah, exactly, but we can still, like, it’s not, like, I’m…we have amazing sex before this and something sparked “Oh, but can we get more”, that, I think, is really important to continue to have, that conversation, because it opened up this whole avenue that was like “Holy smokearoonies!”, and it was amazing, and people miss that. It’s like, you get together, you’re like “Great, I’m safe, I’m the wife, you’re the husband”, or whatever it is, whatever gender you’re playing, you’re like “I’m just going to chill now, we’re in our safe zone”.

[57:53] Johann

It’s so easy to get into a pattern, you know, when you’re with someone for a long time, you know “Okay, sex looks like this, we’re going to, you know, take the clothes off and then this happens”, and step two…

[58:03] Sahara

The things that get you off, the things that get me off and then… 

[58:06] Johann

Yeah, yeah.

[58:07] Sahara

You go off to the next task.

[58:09] Rachel


[58:09] Johann

For a while that’s really fun, when you do it a hundred times, the same way, you’re like “Err, the next hundred are going to look exactly the same but it’s going to get less and less exciting”, and so, what we’ve discovered is to have those conversations. And this one, also, has sparked with us, actually, again, beginning to be a little bit more playful outside of our container, right? But this time around, like, not being confused about it.

[58:35] Rachel

And being in complete integrity with trust and safety.

[58:39] Johann

Yes. And then exploring, and then having that third energy, we’re using as a Parel terms here, to really be enlivening for us.

[58:49] Rachel


[58:49] Johann

And then finding that, you know, often times, even if that sparks a conversation, like, what is lacking or what could we add, and that’s not there right now, and that’s what happened for us, is, then, having that sex where we’re both like “That’s the best sex we ever had! Wow!” It’s just so blown away, you know, and just being that “Did that…? Yeah, that just happened!”

[59:13] Sahara

And that was with the third energy?

[59:15] Rachel

No, no, after.

[59:16] Johann

After the conversation, after we’ve been in, like, a playful space.

[59:21] Rachel

Oh, yeah, like, a very sweet, playful, like, safe, very, like a PG experience…well…

[59:30] Johann

Uhm…I would not call that PG, my love!

[59:33] Rachel

I would say it was PG. Maybe PG 13.

[59:37] Johann

Uhm…okay, you’d let a 13-year-old into that room?

[59:40] Rachel


[59:41] Johann

Exactly! We’re making shit up right now.

[59:44] Rachel

Okay, okay.

[59:45] Sahara

She just has more depths to explore, she’s just getting started.

[59:48] Rachel

I’m just getting started! Yeah, that was just like…

[59:49] Sahara

That was PG for Rachel.

[59:53] Johann

Okay, I like it! So, to say, you know, there’s so many opportunities to explore aliveness and really convert the aliveness to be in service to you vs. enslave you. Rachel likes to say “Aliveness is going to keep coming and it’s not going away!”

[1:00:13] Sahara

Keep coming!

[1:00:14] Rachel


[1:00:16] Sahara

M-hm, that’s right!

[1:00:17] Johann


[1:00:18] Sahara

I love that, it’s inspiring that you’re like “Yeah, our first few years of sex were, you know, okay, but now we’re having the best sex, ten years in”, because you always hear the opposite.

[1:00:26] Rachel and Johann


[1:00:26] Sahara

You always hear the first few years were amazing but now we’re ten years in. So, it just shows that the more communication you have, the more honesty, the more opening you have, the sex gets better, it’s not that these things dilute and make a relationship boring and too real.

[1:00:40] Rachel


[1:00:41] Sahara

But it’s actually that is what creates, like, your true fantasy and making it happen rather than, like, playing a role that neither of you guys… Like, I wonder with these one-night stands, it’s like, you guys have never really met or talked, like, is that really satisfying for either parties?

[1:00:56] Rachel

Not really.

[1:00:57] Sahara

Unless there’s some trauma bond involved, then maybe. So, I think it’s so beautiful that you guys are just, like, living embodiments of this because, you know, a lot of people talk about relationships, but it’s tone thing to talk about in theory and it’s another thing to be living it.

In today’s world, with the social media, with the distractions, with the, you know, confusion of gender roles, and just all of the dynamics and conversations, and you guys are really aware of all of them too. I mean, I’ve spoken to you guys off air for many, many hours about the things, and you guys are both so open, but like, also so romantic. And it’s beautiful to have that – because it’s like, sometimes you get so open that it’s almost like there’s no more polarity or really a relationship anymore, right? But it’s like, you guys are like “I love you so much, I’m obsessed with you”, and like, have that cuteness, and you’re like “Oh, but we’re just getting started’.

[1:01:48] Rachel

Oh yeah!

[1:01:50] Johann

That’s what it really feels like, is that we’re just getting started.

[1:01:52] Rachel

We’ve just scratched the surface.

[1:01:54] Johann

Yeah, of how amazing it really can be. And by the way, that’s our daily prayer.

[1:01:59] Rachel

Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:00] Johann

That is what we speak out loud every single day when we do our gratitude prayer and practice is, is that. And I, so powerfully believe, that we create our reality.

[1:02:11] Rachel

Yeah, we do it all.

[1:02:12] Johann

Our intentions with our energy, and so, this is our creation. And, you know, so often, we find ourselves in a place, in the world, having to experience and be like “Didn’t we just speak this into existence, like, three months ago when we were taking a walk?”, yeah we did.

[1:02:27] Rachel

And you know, I think that, to what you said, I think that’s so beautiful because there’s this misconception that when you’re getting into relationship, if you really, like, say all the things that there’s no more mystery. And I think that blocks us from going deeper, when I believe the truth is, the deeper you go, the deeper it becomes, and there’s this never-ending portal. And when you start to, continuously, reveal your desires, you discover new desires, right? And how to – I think one of the most important things in relationship is creating safe spaces for everything to be said, right, to express, like, your worries, your apprehension, your resentment, your desires, your needs, your wants, and for that conversation to not, like, be a blow-up, right, but for everything to be there because then, to what you said, you sort of switch the roles and it just gets better and better, and deeper and deeper, because the more intimacy you create, then, like, you know, the deeper you get into your erotic themes and your, you know, through that, you’re like “Oh, I didn’t know I desired this”, but because there’s so much trust and safety, you discover something that you would’ve never discovered. So, it’s like, really…

[1:03:41] Johann

You stop playing a character.

[1:03:42] Rachel


[1:03:43] Johann

And you really are able to be who you are, moment to moment, which is forever changing. And so, you don’t need to hold onto this idea of “I’m this mysterious…I’m going to show you a part of me, I’m this dude that’s this”. Again, it’s a static idea of who you think that thing is or…

[1:04:01] Rachel

That they want, yeah.

[1:04:02] Johann

Versus together of being in the discovery of who you get to become, moment to moment, which is forever interesting.

[1:04:09] Rachel


[1:04:11] Sahara

So beautiful! Well, thank you both for being walking examples of this, of love, embodiments of love! And I love following both of you, separately, with your pyramid breathwork that you’re doing. Guys, he does the most amazing breathwork, he has a certification, so, I’ll link his Instagram below. And Rachel does incredible wild woman ecstatic dances! 

And can you talk about your shared dharma, the project that you guys are co-creating?

[1:04:34] Rachel

Yeah, I mean, to everything we expressed, you know, we really want to impart on anyone who is willing, that this was tools, like, we’re not just perfect, we’re not just we found our soulmate, there are tools and there are skills. And Angel, one of our best friends, she said, like, after newness and novelty comes skill and devotion. And really wanting to teach people these things that none of us, you know, were taught when we were little, and really taking couples and sort of busting the myths that anyone we work with, it’s just needing, like, it’s okay to go moments without having sex, it’s totally normal. And so, bringing people into containers and doing, like, deeper relationship mastery where we get intimate and we hold space for you to really open yourselves into partnerships so that you can experience the passionate deep intimate love that you truly desire. 

[1:05:28] Johann

Yeah, so, our couples container is coming up – and another container that we’re so excited about is a men’s container that we’re both going to be leading. So, it’s not going to be like me holding a men’s container, right, this is really, the dudes are going to get the embodiment of what it means to be in a relationship. 

[1:05:48] Rachel

And get the feminine.

[1:05:49] Johann

And I think it’s so rare, yeah, to create a safe space where both masculine and feminine perspectives are present. And we’re really seeing the value of that, and the need for that, in a world right now because, otherwise, it’s so polarized and we’re in these narratives and stories. And it’s through the togetherness of us, that we have discovered – I, literally, was saying that on the way here, is like, we make each other the best versions of each other, we bring out the best in each other, and it’s through the process that we’ve gone through that we’re able to hold that and live that.

[1:06:25] Sahara

And it’s so beautiful knowing that there are tools, and it’s a skillset, and it requires practice, because then you’re not in the space of waiting and like “Aww, I hope I find my Johann and I hope I find my Rachel”, but it’s like “Okay, let me use this time of being single to look at my blind sports and to go inwards and to up-level myself, which is going to cause me to be attracted to different people, be in different circles and show up in different ways”.

[1:06:48] Rachel


[1:06:49] Sahara

It’s such a beautiful place to devote yourself, not just when you’re single, and also while you’re in partnership too, so, your only learning container isn’t that other person, but you’re bringing new tools into the relationship, which keeps that spark going as well.

[1:07:01] Rachel


[1:07:02] Sahara

Yay! Well, thank you guys so much for being here today and for sharing space with us!

[1:07:06] Johann

Thanks for having us!

[1:07:07] Rachel 

Yeah, it’s such a pleasure, we love you so much!

[1:07:09] Johann

Sending you so much love everybody! 

[1:07:12] End of Interview


[1:07:13] Sahara

Oh, my goddess, I am on cloud nine after that conversation! It is conversations like this that I do the Podcast for! You know, these types of discussions that open our hearts and just pull open the lid of the car of all of our suppressed feelings, and unmet expectations, and these shifts that we’re experiencing as a collective, but we’re not talking about. We need to bring this at the forefront! We want to be in relationship, we want to be in love, we want companionship and unionship, but that doesn’t just happen to us, it’s something that we actively co-create. 

[1:07:48] Sahara

So, I hope you took so much out of that Episode, it’s definitely one I’m going to listen to again and again, because there are so many different angles that, if you really take that in and apply it into your life, it is going to change the game for you! And not just the game, you know, it’s the life, it’s the expansion, it’s what’s possible for us through this beautiful, unifying energy of love.

[1:08:11] Sahara

So, thank you so much for tuning in! Share this Episode on social media, share it with your friends, share it with those in a marriage, in a heartbreak, anywhere in between. 

[1:08:21] Sahara

And if you loved this Episode, I would love for you to leave a review for it on the iTunes Store and as a free gift, I will share with you my Womb Meditation. So, this is a little 8-minte meditation practice that you can do to connect to your womb’s energy and actually ask her questions and receive her answers. 

So, all you’ve got to do is head over to the iTunes Store, the Apple Store, where you’re listening to your podcasts, and leave a review, take a screenshot of that review and email it over to me at [email protected] you can find that email in the show notes and I’ll send you back my Womb Meditation.

[1:08:55] Sahara

Thank you so much for tuning in! Be sure to subscribe to receive the next one, and I can’t wait to keep the discussion going! Namaste!

Episode #491: How To Have Amazing Communication + Chemistry In Relationships with Rachel Pringle Urb + Johann Urb
By Sahara Rose

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