Highest Self Podcast 486: How To Date + Be In Relationship With the Conscious Masculine with Aubert Bastiat


One of the biggest questions I hear is “Where all the conscious men at?!” I’ve definitely asked the same! So in today’s conversation, I bring Sacred Sons co-founder Aubert to discuss why they may not be as far away as you think.. And how we can truly be in alignment for meeting them through doing our own inner work.

We discuss the healed vs shadow masculine, deciding what our deal breakers are, and why healing our trauma is the most important factor in having deep relationships.

We then discuss being in the death portal and why leaning into it is essential for truly liberating ourselves from attachment– why is the key to embodying our dharmas. He opens up and gets vulnerable about the suicide of his sister and I also share takeaways from my divorce process.

This is a profound and tear-filled conversation that I know will hit a deeper cord within you.. It certainly did for me.

Connect with Aubert on Instagram here: https://instagram.com/aubertbastiat
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Intro + Outro Music: Silent Ganges by Maneesh de Moor

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Episode #486: How To Date + Be In A Relationship With the Conscious Masculine with Aubert Bastiat
By Sahara Rose

[00:00] Sahara

People say, you know, “Hurt people, hurt people” and “Trauma creates a trauma”, until there’s a person who’s brave and responsible enough to make it stop”.

[00:09] Aubert


[00:09] Sahara

And let’s let that be us.

[00:11] Aubert

Yeah, the cycle-breaker.

[00:12] Sahara


[00:13] Aubert

Yeah, because darkness turns into light when we’re willing to love it.

[00:18] Sahara

And that’s the ultimate transmutation and alchemy, is, can we be brave enough to be like “No, you hurt me and I’m not going to continue this pain”. 

[00:28] Aubert

Yeah. And that takes incredible self-love. It all comes back to self-love and that’s capital ‘S’, self-love, that’s the God within us. Not the separate self, not to provisional personality, not the trauma and the wounds, capital ‘S’, self, the highest self.


[00:55] Sahara

Hi, it’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you, your soul’s highest evolvement. 

[01:03] Sahara

If it’s your first time listening, welcome! I am so grateful to be connected with you and I’m feeling like a brand-new bitch right now! I am at Image Festival in Costa Rica, where I am DJ-ing tonight, a live set, my Shakthi twerk music which is a mix global bass, afro beats, reggaeton, and of course, 2000s hip-hop, because, you know, nothing brings out your inner booty popping, teenaging ass than hip-hop music. 

[01:31] Sahara

I’m really excited for, just this new chapter of my life right now. If you’ve been tuning into the Podcast, I got divorced a few months ago and this has really brought about a new chapter in my life. It has brought upon a new energy, a new freedom, a new identity and I’m really getting to know and falling in love with this new version of me who’s just so much more expressed and joyful, but also full of range than ever before.

[02:00] Sahara

I have such a higher capacity to feel, to feel it all, because when you go to the depths of pain, and suffering, and darkness, on the other side you can experience so much more love, and connection, and joy. And it has opened up my capacity to feel, and blasted open my heart chakra, so, I’m so grateful for it. 

I’m grateful for all of the friends, the teachers, who have come along my path, and one of them you’re going to hear on today’s Podcast. His name is Aubert Bastiat, he is one of the co-founders of Sacred Sons, which is an incredible organization that helps raise consciousness in men and reconnect them to their primal roots and do really heavy trauma healing in a way that’s community-focused.

[02:47] Sahara

So, I’ve known Aubert for years now, and you know, in this divorce process, he has been someone who has really been there for me. So, I wanted to bring him on the Podcast to talk about this question that a lot of us women have, which is “Where are all the conscious men at?”, you know. 

Sometimes it feels like, being honest, we’re doing all this inner work, we’re healing, we’re diving in, and it feels, sometimes, that not as many men are doing so. So, I started off, I ask him this question. 

We talk about the healed vs shadow masculine; we talk about deciding what our deal-breaker are; we talk about why healing trauma is the most important factor in having deep relationships; and then we dive even deeper into, like, beyond the surface level of, like, what relationships are about, which is our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with our souls, our highest selves, so, we discuss being in the death portal. And he gets really vulnerable about the suicide of his sister, and I also share the take-aways of the death and rebirth process that I have been through as well. 

[03:51] Sahara

So, this is a really profound and tear-filled conversation that I know will hit a deeper cord within you, it certainly did for me.

[03:59] Sahara

So, without ado, let’s welcome Aubert on The Highest Self Podcast.


[04:03] Interview

[04:03] Sahara

Welcome Aubert, to The Highest Self Podcast, it’s so great to have you here! 

[04:07] Aubert

So good to be here! Honored!

[04:09] Sahara

Yes! So, the first question I would love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self? 

[04:15] Aubert

I would say my devotion to being my most authentic, honest and true self. In other words, honoring my heart.

[04:25] Sahara

And you truly are a heart warrior, I feel it! And you have been so there for me throughout my divorce. Guys, Aubert has been texting me every day, and checking in, and going back and forth, and it was so healing to have, like, a man hold space because I feel like, you know, especially for women, when we go through hard times, it’s our sisters that show up. And you know, and my sisters have been so deeply healing, I’m like “Bless the feminine”, but I feel like when our wounds are coming from the masculine, it’s particularly healing to have a masculine figure show up too, because it’s easy for us to create stories around “All men are XYZ”, but instead to be like “No, not all men”, you know. And there are many men who want to show up and be of service and, you know, have deep emotional conversations, even with people who aren’t their partner, you know. And so, that was, like, beautiful, like, evidence that was able to be created in my mind, so, thank you for showing up.

[05:21] Aubert

You’re welcome! It was my honor! Yeah, I really felt called to just show up and be supportive. After you let me know, I was like “Wow, what a bomb, you must be in shock!” And so, I was like, you know, continuing to make those touch points and to check in. I think that’s important because, sometimes, in the aftermath of some kind of conflict or intensity, people will, like, swarm and be like really there, and then, that kind of peters out, but it’s a long process. Whatever it might be, and in this case, you know, the dissolution of a marriage, after seven years, right, that’s big.

[05:52] Sahara

It’s taught me so much about how I can show up with people through heartbreak and, like, how little I took it seriously before, of, you know, your friend goes through a breakup and you’re like “Oh my god, like, how are you? I hope you’re well”, and you, kind of just, you don’t really check-in after that, you know, because I haven’t gone through it this level before and now, I’m like, able to see what was helpful for me and vs not. And it’s just the check-ins of letting people know, like “I’m thinking of you”, you know, and I don’t even need to respond.

[06:19] Aubert

It’s all it is.

[06:20] Sahara

It’s, like, sending love to that person is so helpful. And you’re right because it’s, like, maybe people check in for the first week, two weeks, and then they figure “Okay, life moves on”, but especially with something like heartbreak and you know, grief in general, there are many, many layers to it that continue to unravel. 

And it’s interesting because I polled my Instagram audience, I’m like “How many of you guys are going through a heartbreak”, 70% said yes, I’m like “Wow!” There’s something happening in the collective right now, of just, whatever was not fully true was dissolving and I really believe it’s to be cleared for us to find, you know, first, the love in ourselves and then, you know, to find, then, love that is true. 

And I’m excited to share with you and talk with you today because your work with Sacred Sons has been around the masculine (in fact, you coached my brother). And I think a story that a lot of us have, that even myself, I’ll admit, I have to a degree, is that, there aren’t many spiritual masculine men, and there are a lot of spiritual women out there, you know, who – the feminine tends to be more open to spirituality than men.

[07:31] Aubert


[07:32] Sahara

So, how are we all going to find spiritual masculine men, especially when, often times, what I have found, especially being in Ubud right now, like, sometimes the men who go on a spiritual journey, they really soften so much that they become hyper-feminine? And then, for those of us who are women, who have businesses and are, like, doing things out in the world, it’s then like “I don’t want to hold the masculine pole”.

So, first of all, is this belief true, that there aren’t many spiritual masculine men?

[08:02] Aubert

Well, I’m around many all the time, so, for me, it’s definitely not true. And at the same time, I think it’s important to recognize that, sometimes, our idea of what a spiritual masculine man is, or should be, might prevent us from even connecting, right, with that spiritual masculine men that would be good for them, you know. 

And so, I think the first step is really letting go of the belief that there aren’t many spiritual masculine men, because our beliefs create our reality, you know, they influence our choices, our emotions, in the way that we perceive and interact with life. 

So, if we have a fundamental belief that there are no good guys out there, right, because of experiences, lived experiences that might justify that belief. But if we’re on this path of evolution, we’re on this path of conscious growth, then it behooves us to do the work, to clear those beliefs and the trauma that might keep those beliefs rooted in our somatic bodies, you know. And so, there’s work to be done to really surrender and let go of these beliefs that might limit our capacity to align with our perfect partner.

[09:12] Sahara

Yeah, and I think it’s even, like, defining to us what does it mean to be a spiritual masculine man. You know, like, does spirituality, to you, mean a man that goes to plant medicine ceremonies? Does it mean a man that practices yoga? A man that meditates? Like, I feel like even being specific with what it is that we’re looking for.

[09:30] Aubert

I love that, yeah. For me, spiritual – like, we’re all spiritual beings, that’s my context, that’s my perspective. Not everybody perceives it that way, but you can even go a step further and say that the degree of spirituality that’s embodied is a reflection of someone’s devotion to, like, why we’re really here and who we are. And that’s different for everybody, you know, depending on the lens that they’re viewing themselves in the world. 

And so, I think it’s very important that the individual themselves, they really get clear that “I’m very clear about what I want. Like, who and what do I want, and why?” Like, just to be very clear, you know, about the why, who, asking these, like, existential questions, I think is important because the more deeply we know ourselves, then the more depth we’re going to find in union and in relationship.

[10:23] Sahara

It’s been so fascinating because for me, I had this like belief that, you know, a lot of the spiritual men, they just wat to process their emotions all the time, that was my former belief, now I think that’s really beautiful. But I feel like that why I, in a way, was not even attracted to people like that, I was like “It’s too much, it’s too feminine, like, I want a guy who’s, like, on his mission”. And personally, for me, I’m attracted to musicians. So, for me, like, I would look at being spiritual is someone who’s living in their heart, someone who’s creative, someone who’s expressed, and I would say those are still really important tenants to me. However, I do think now, what I would add to that is going to depths of their consciousness.

[11:06] Aubert

That’s a big one! 

[11:08] Sahara

It’s a big one!

[11:10] Aubert


[11:10] Sahara

I, literally, on my hinge, it’s like, we would get along if you’ve gone to the depths of your consciousness, because then, I’m not fucking with you, you know. 

[11:18] Aubert

Number one criteria! Have you gotten into the depths of your consciousness? No? See you! Swipe!

[11:23] Sahara

Yeah, because, have you not gone there, you’re just on the surface level.

[11:28] Aubert

Yeah, like, how, like, we relate to someone depends on how, like I said, how deeply we’re relating to ourselves and, like, what’ our standard, like, what’s our standard of connection in intimacy?

My standard is ever-evolving, and so, it’s important that people that I’m close with, evolve with me, whether that’s partnership, friendship, it’s like when we evolve together, then we get a ride together and rise together. If we’re not, then we’re going to, you know, vibrate out, the connection is going to fizzle for whatever reason. And there’s no right or wrong, I really, truly believe that. But when it comes to our orientation to life and spirituality, it’s like, what are the principles that someone lives their life by? Do they even have principles, right? Because you look at all the wisdom traditions in religions and the best, from all around the world, they’re all saying the same thing, right, how to be a good human being, how to be a good soul on this earth? Because it’s not only this material life, this isn’t all there is, there’s much, much more beyond this physical world. And while we’re here, in this physical world, our conduct and the way that we move through life, the way that we walk our path, that’s going to create ripples all throughout the world, right, it’s going to influence the co-creative power, the collective consciousness, like, what’s happening, what is this, what are we a part of, right? And so, it behooves us, it’s our responsibility to really take those steps, to be clear about our ethical standards and do we, ourselves, abide by them? 

[13:05] Sahara

Yeah. I think asking someone what their core values are, on a first date, is so important because then you know what is it that they really stand for, but then I think, deeper than that, are they embodying that in their lives. Because, sometimes, with these core values conversations, I’ve noticed, is like “I value love, truth, peace, unity and harmony”, and it’s like, sure, everyone likes that, but like, okay, how is that integrated into your reality? Are you living your dharma? Are you honest in your communication? What is your relationship, like, with your family? Like, what is your relationship like with your friends? What was your relationship like with your own childhood? And that’s why, I think, trauma healing is such an important part too.

And I think for a lot of men, specifically, there’s a lot more guards up because of just the way that the masculine identity is expected to be in our society.

[13:56] Aubert


[13:56] Sahara

You know, that it’s so vulnerable to speak about these traumas that so many men have experienced. But until those traumas are not fully looked into, the core values are just words, you know, it’s…

[14:05] Aubert

That’s true!

[14:06] Sahara

They’re things on the board. And it’s to really like – like, my core values through this divorce have shifted because when you go through something that rocks your boat, it’s like “What do I really stand for at the end of the day?” 

So, I’m curious, for people listening to this out there, who, maybe they’re in a relationship or not in a relationship, how can we approach men to dive into trauma healing when it’s something that they, like, might not naturally want to do?

[14:34] Aubert

Yeah. Definitely from a place of love. Like, meeting someone where they’re at, I think is very important because if we have an agenda, right, and it’s okay to have an agenda, because, maybe your partner is hurting you, right? Maybe you’re in a relationship and, you know, they’re not communicating or there’s a barrier you feel that you want to dissolve because you want deeper intimacy with someone. I mean, I’m guilty of being in moments or times in my life where maybe I’m not as receptive as I need to be, to be a good partner. Maybe I’m stressed out or focused on other things and it’s important that, you know, my partner can approach me and say “Hey, I want to be closer to you”. And so, I think leading from a place of meeting someone where they’re at, like, really acknowledging like “I understand that you’re stressed and that you’re going through it”, you know, maybe these guards, or these defenses, or these reasons that we might employ to hide, to protect ourselves, to defend against the underlying pain that we haven’t met and we don’t know how to meet, you know.

And so, coming from a place of love, compassion and understanding goes a long way, you know. And you might be carrying pain yourself from their inability to meet you. And depending on how long you’ve been in relationship, that could be building up to a point – usually people seek out help when it’s already at a crisis level or it’s going really bad, right? Because, like, we have a tendency to make excuses and to, like, one, look at the bright side. That’s good, that’s okay at times, but it’s really important that we honor ourselves and our growth, you know. 

And so, with someone that might be reluctant, or, like, might have challenges accessing their emotional world, for various reasons, I think it’s just very important to acknowledge the reality of what is, like to meet them from the level of the mind before meeting them from the level of the heart. And so, taking them from the mind and drawing them deeper because, again, if you just hit them with the heart, you’re in your emotions and he’s in his head, he’s going to respond or react from his head.

[16:43] Sahara

What can you, like, literally, say? Can you give us a verbatim, like “I want to connect deeper with you and this is why…” I feel like it then turns into a request, “This is why I really want you to do trauma healing?”

[16:56] Aubert

You know, “I love you and you hurt me in ways that you’re not even aware of, that you’re not even aware of. And I see your potential, I see your heart, I see the man that you are, but I want to feel him. I want to feel him. Because that’s what I deserve. And if you’re not willing to step deeper into who you are and do the work, I just got to say, I can’t wait around forever, this isn’t an ultimatum, but I’m just saying I love you and I want to feel you deeper. And if you’re unwilling to meet me, I know my worth. I know my worth”.

[17:39] Sahara

I love that, of “I want to feel you deeper and I see the man that you are”, because it’s – I feel like everyone wants someone to see them in their fullness, in their potential, in their highest selves. And it’s like a beautiful way of being like “I’m choosing to be with you right now and I want to feel you”. And I think that that’s often what the feminine struggles with from the masculine, of like, you know, you go to them with your problem and it’s like “Okay, here’s the solution for it”, very in the head.

[18:09] Aubert

Fix it.

[18:09] Sahara


[18:10] Aubert

“Let me fix it!”

[18:11] Sahara

Yeah, to really be felt, to really be met. Would you suggest, for women, to find them a therapist or, like, send them a link to Sacred Sons or something like that? Or does that put them into the, now, teacher role? 

[18:25] Aubert

So, no man, even though, maybe unconsciously they do, wants to be with his mother, wants to feel mothered, right? And at the same time, there are a lot of men out there who are operating at the level of, you know, various psycho-social stages of development, you could say.

[18:43] Sahara

They don’t want a mother but they want their mother.

[18:46] Aubert

They don’t want a mother, but their mother wasn’t able to meet them as they needed to be met, so now there’s pieces that need repair, there’s parts of themselves that need to be excavated, there’s healing that has to happen for them to become whole themselves, and not want (unconsciously want) and create the scenarios to be mothered, right, or to be scolded, or whatever it might be, whatever dynamic. 

And so, I think it’s different for everybody, but if there’s love, if there’s genuine love, and if the man is able to receive and know that, if there’s enough trust and safety in the relationship where the man can genuinely see that they are loved, and feel that to some degree – maybe their heart is not open to it and they can’t feel it, but they know it because they look at all the actions and they look at how they show up, they look at how they might hurt them and then they still show up “Wow, she really loves me”. And so, if there’s enough trust and safety in the relationship, then it can be as simple as like “I would really love for you to go and experience this”, unattached, you know, unattached and no expectations, but from a place of love, and I think it will be well received.

You know, a lot of men who come into Sacred Sons, their loved ones are for them, whether that’s like a mother, a father, a son, a brother, a lover, you know, there’s a lot of love from people that see, like “Oh, like, you need this work”. And you might not be the one to say “I want to do that work, I need that work”, but here’s a little boost, here’s a little, make it a little easier, “I got you this for your birthday”, or whatever it might be. And so, there have been men like “I don’t even know what this is. Like, I’m just here”, and like…

[20:25] Sahara

Great birthday gift.

[20:26] Aubert

Yeah. I believe that, whatever the way the work looks like, whether that’s with Sacred Sons, within a brotherhood, a community, a therapy room, whatever it might be, it’s just important to take steps and to try new things and different things, if whatever dynamic you’re in isn’t working.

[20:42] Sahara

Would you say that it’s better for couples to start with couple’s therapy or to just with their own individual therapy and coaching?

[20:50] Aubert

I think’s it’s – you know, I think it depends, it really does. But if it’s already at a point now where you’re like “Oh man, it’s going really bad, we’re missing each other, there’s a lot of hurt, a lot of conflict, and we can’t resolve this ourselves”, you know, if it’s, like, super entangled, then it’s like, almost like you’re already waited too long to seek out help.

And so, I would say, like, consider getting couple’s therapy earlier on, when things are still going pretty well and maybe there’s, like, tension or little pieces, they’re like “Hey, how do we navigate this?”, or maybe it’s, like, a pattern that keeps on popping up. 

And I think you could even see someone’s willingness to, like, do couple therapy, right? There’s a lot of people that don’t want to do couple’s therapy, and there’s various reasons for that, you know, and that’s okay, there’s no judgment, and to know ourselves, it’s so important.

[21:41] Sahara

Totally. And whatever next relationship I enter into, whenever that happens, but I’m like a year in, or even just, like, a monthly check-in, because I do think there’s something so helpful and letting the – I think, as a couple, to just, on your own, have a weekly check-in of what you’re feeling and they’re feeling, or even a daily check-in.

A friend of mine, she has a really great practice with her partner that, every day, they have this little white board and they write down, like, what’s their intention of the day, like, the word of their day, and how they’re feeling 1-10, like energy-wise.

[22:10] Aubert

That’s cool.

[22:11] Sahara

And it’s like, if that person’s feeling like a 4, then you know, give that person extra love, they’re not feeling so good.

[22:16] Aubert

I love that.

[22:17] Sahara

Let’s say their intention is to focus, like, don’t come to them that day like “Hey, do you want to do this, this”, it’s like, their intention is to focus. And I just love that, these little touch points, these little rituals that you get to create with your partner so you’re able to communicate in a way that doesn’t feel like “We need to have a talk”, and this heavy thing, but instead, is almost gamified, in a way, and then having weekly check-ins where you talk about what’s going on for you this week, but also how are you feeling in the relationship. And I feel like monthly check-ins with a couple’s coach or therapist or something, because sometimes you feel more comfortable, maybe, saying something to a third party, that you wouldn’t necessarily feel comfortable saying to that person.

[22:55] Aubert

Totally. I love you have it all structured out now.

[22:58] Sahara

Yeah, I got a plan, ready to dive in!

[23:02] Aubert

It’s how your brain works. It’s wise, there’s a lot of wisdom there to really create the structure that can really support the evolution of our relational container, right, the deepening of our union.

[23:14] Sahara

Because what I realized is, I took relationships for granted. I was like “Why does everyone wish this, it’s so easy for me”, you know. Because we weren’t putting in that level of work, you know and we were both pretty agreeable people, so it was like “Oh, like, you’re busy, I’m busy, like, it’s fine”, you know, and it just kept leading to even more and more, like, separate lives. And now, I’m realizing the level of intimacy and love and devotion you’re going to have in your relationship is a direct correlation with how much of these confronting, and vulnerable, and difficult, and challenging conversations. 

And, like, you know, it’s so easy to just sweep things under the rug, or pretend that it doesn’t bother you, or find the bright side than it is to actually look at like “What are my needs and my values?” And especially as you change, because you change so much in relationship, that you really keep on having to get to know this next version of that person.

[24:07] Aubert

So true.

[24:07] Sahara                                               

And both versions of you keep choosing each other.

[24:10] Aubert

Yeah, that’s beautiful. Yeah, we are energy beings, so, we’re these waves of energy, like, continually changing, moment to moment, right? And it’s so important that we can hold space for that dynamic-ness that we get to live together, especially in union, right? But sometimes, we fixate or we hold an image of someone in our minds and then we fail to really, like, explore the ever-evolving nature of relationship, of that dynamic. And so, it’s so crucial to really bring in and bring through, like, some of these practices, some of the rituals, that you can co-create. That’s, I think, the beautiful thing about relationships, we can bring our creativity into it.

[24:52] Sahara

So, what if your partner is not willing to do these things? They’re like “No, that’s lame”, or “I’m not going to couple’s therapy”, or “I’m not into that spiritual stuff”, what can we do?

[25:02] Aubert

Well, I guess it depends on someone’s deal-breakers. Like, are these deal-breakers? And I think that’s like, it comes back to, like, knowing ourselves and what we need and want, and being so clear about it, and also, like, our ever-evolving nature, right? Like, we’re continually changing, our values are changing, what we desire changes as we grow. And so, if that, you know, journey with someone, it’s like, rather than growing together, we’re growing apart, then it’s important to honor that because, maybe, at a certain point when it’s like “Man”. You know, we have these hopes or expectations or these agendas coming into relationship, we see like “Oh, I could change that”, or like “Okay, I can live with that”, or you know, maybe hoping it’ll change sometime in the future. We future-project a lot, we assume a lot, and sometimes that’s a recipe for being hurt, you know, and meeting the unreality or the naivete of our expectations. So, like, we can’t change, force change, on someone, we can only be the change ourselves and if that inspires the change in another – beautiful. But sometimes, I think, you know, especially for men, we’re disconnected from ourselves, from our hearts, you know, because of all the trauma that we’ve carried, collectively, individually, familialy, it’s intense, and especially with all the expectations and you know, roles and norms that men are, kind of, put into. And I think, I do see it changing, it is changing. And this is, like, deep, this is generations. And so, there’s a momentum, right? There’s a momentum behind our lineages and in the trauma that moves through us, like, that spell, right, the ancestral spell that gets casted through the lineage.

And so, to break a cycle takes so much courage, it takes so much love. And so, if it doesn’t happen with you, like, say you’re in a relationship with someone that isn’t willing to break their generational curse or meet the generational trauma that is impacting your capacity to connect and to have the relationship that you truly desire, then it’s important to honor yourself and do what needs to be done, because – listen, when a man says something, you know, that he might mean differently, and you have to just take what people say at face value. I believe, you know, we can, like, use our mind and make stories up and, like, go off in a fantasy land, like, what is, what is? You can feel it, be honest with yourself, what is, what is the relationship like, what’s the quality of it and is that what you want? And if it’s not, change yourself, because you’re not going to change the other, you know, without consequences, without retribution, without resentment, without all these other things that come from people feeling forced to change, right.

[27:47] Sahara

What I’ve noticed, you know, being in this experience, is, one of the shadows of the feminine is fantastical thinking, creating these illusions, creating these, like “One day, he’s going to turn into this person”, seeing the potential in other people, you know, of like “He’s healing, he’s on his journey, it’s happening”, you know, ten years later “It’s happening, he’s getting started, he read a book”, you know. And I think that’s the beauty of the feminine too, of like, we’re so positive sometimes, wishful thinking sometimes, but the shadow is, like, living in illusion. 

[28:20] Aubert


[28:21] Sahara

But the other side of that is the fear of abandonment and the fear of being alone, that if you took this person face value, and you’re like “Yep, they’re still not doing the spiritual work, they’re still not diving into their traumas, they’re still not having these deep, meaningful conversations, so, does that mean that I have to leave them?” The thought of leaving them is horrifying because of everything that that comes with, especially if you have kids, especially if you’re financially dependent on that person, like, there are so many factors, I’m like “Wow”. I have so much compassion for women in those situations, that I’m so grateful that that wasn’t mine. But I feel like, so often, it’s easier for women to be like “I’m just not going to make those my needs anymore. I’m not going to make those deal-breakers because the other side of that is me leaving this safe situation, being in the unknown and I don’t know if I’ll be able to handle this on”. I think a deep feminine need, part of it is from the shadow, part of it is from the light, is, like, to be taken care of. So, it’s like, for me, you know, going through, after this divorce, I’m like “Wow, I fully have to know all my finances and my taxes and my phone bill”, and just, like, all of these extra things that my mind just has to know. 

And again, I’m a business woman, like, I’m pretty good at these things, I can figure it out. Now, imagine a housewife who’s never worked a day in her life, who doesn’t speak the language. So, what advice do you have?

It’s like, I feel like, in our perfect worlds, yes, it would be a deal-breaker if you’re not spiritual and you can’t meet me, you can’t connect with me on a soul level, but the actuality of it is like, how do we actually know it’s worth it to, like, leave a marriage and everything that that comes with? 

[29:58] Aubert

Yeah, that’s real. And I believe that it starts with our orientation to life, like, our big why. Why are we here and what do we want to stand for? What kind of life do we want to live and what do we want to experience, right? And if you’re at that crossroads and there’s, you know, so many reasons to not leave, that bring you fear, you have to really ask yourself whether you want to live by those fears and die by those fears, or that you want to face them and experience the depths of life that are possible on the other side, the unknown, you know. 

So, it’s so crucial to really become comfortable, or like, comfortable with the uncomfortable, because that’s, like, part of the human experience, it’s uncomfortable. Growth is, you hear it all the time, but it’s true. You know, it’s easy to read a meme and be like “Yeah, like, I totally relate to that”, and it’s another thing that when we’re in the fire to live those memes, those principles, you know, these timeless principles that govern our reality, like the spiritual principles to abide by, love, live by wisdom, letting go, forgiveness, all these things. And if we have to work on them, then we’re going to be given the situations to work on them and work through them.

So, you know, ultimately, I believe that it’s crucial for us to know our deepest why, to know ourselves deeply, because, to the degree that we know ourselves and know why we’re here and know what we want to do and what we want to experience, then the Universe can align a reciprocal experience that can help us evolve, that can, like, fulfil some of those desires, but also take us to edges that we didn’t even know that we had to go to, you know.

And so, depending on our unique path, our unique soul path, unique dharma, you know, we’re going to be met with the perfect circumstances. And I think it comes down to trust. How deeply do you trust in life? How deeply do you trust in your capacity to face whatever might come? Even if it’s a death of your physical body, right? We, like, shutter the darkness, the death, right, ageing, we shutter so many things into the shadows because of fear. But in that, we’re going to be met by it in some other way that’s going to, like, sweep us off our feet, and not in a way that fairy tales write about, you know, in ways that are really painful and challenging, and that break people sometimes. 

And so, we live in a world, and we can see a lot of suffering, you know, a lot of struggle, a lot of challenges. I think the root of a lot of that is a disconnection from who we are and why we’re here. And so, it comes back down to, like, our orientation to life. What is our why? If someone knows our why deeply and they’re devoted to living their why, the Universe will conspire in their favor, God will bestow blessings because that is law, you know.

And so, anything in our unconscious that we haven’t faced yet, that we need to face, life is going to show up and support us in facing it. And whether that wants to be, like, a nice kiss on the cheek or a slap on the face, that’s for us to decide.

[33:23] Sahara

And this is why I believe living your dharma, your soul’s purpose, is the most important work that we could do, connecting with that why, because then, anything that we’re experiencing in life, when we look at through that greater lens of like “Does this align with my greater path, and why I’m here, and how I want to express my energy out in the world? Is this safety worth it to me? Am I actually even safe in this, you know?” Sometimes you think you’re safe, but you’re actually fucking trapped, you know. 

And I have a friend, for example, she was really young, immigrant from Colombia, didn’t speak the language, didn’t have really any income, ended up having a baby with someone who was consistently cheating on her, single mom with the baby, had to marry this guy, basically, for a passport, who was, like, in a gang, and he was physically abusive, and you know, then she’s alone with the baby, homeless, and just like, literally, living in people’s, like, extra offices, sleeping on the floor. I mean, really, when you think about all your greatest fear happening, they happened. And now, she is the most bright light, like, teaches women about self-love, such a queen, one of my best friends, and it’s like, had she not gone through what – most people would be like “Oh my, I don’t want to be a homeless, single mom without a passport to this country”, like, that’s, like, a lot. Had she not gone through that, she would not be living her dharma today, where she’s able to help and inspire women, and bring them self-love, and be living as that vibration of love. And it’s like, your ultimate freedom is on the other side of your ultimate fear.

[34:59] Aubert

Oh, that’s it! That’s it right there! And that’s alchemy, right? No mud, no lotus.

[35:08] Sahara

But when you’re in it, it’s like, even for me, I’m like “Wow, I made my living nightmare”, like “If I were to design a nightmare, it would be this one”.

[35:17] Aubert

And you did design it.

[35:18] Sahara

Right! Because I needed that to happen, to set me free.

[35:21] Aubert

Yeah. And whether you designed that unconsciously or super consciously, how you know you need to live it, is, you’re living it, it’s happening, it is what it is. You know, it’s our capacity to embrace what is and whatever’s happening without resorting to, like, denial, escapism, right, just to face what is, and that takes courage. That’s like number one, do you have the courage to face it? Because only in facing it, can we move through it and move beyond it into whatever realm that we need to move into next, you know, realm of embodiment, actualization, self-realization, whatever you want to call this process that we’re on, this conscious evolution that becomes more and more conscious, you know, as we die and we’re reborn.

And so, every death, whether that’s like a literal, physical death, or a symbolic death, or death of an identity, or a role, it’s like, it leads to rebirth so long as we can move through it and not literally take it as, like, a death. Like, some people end their life prematurely, they make the choice to because they can’t face the symbolic death, they cannot face the death of whatever it is, an identity, because the attachment is too great, right? And so, it’s like, can we let go? Can we let go and can we trust? And it comes back to our own inherent and embodied safety. And so many people are operating from survival mode because their bedrock isn’t faith, isn’t ultimate reality, isn’t the creator, right, isn’t God, the Universe, whatever you want to call what is, and like, what we’re a part of. But it’s like, when we’re oriented around the deepest thing and we’re rooted in that, there is no fear. And we have to live by love, we’re guided by it. Love is the gravitational pole that’s all drawing us deeper into what is, deeper into God, deeper into love, you know, it’s like a magnet. And so, the more our heat is open, the more that we’re gravitating towards being more of what we are. And you hear that all the time, like “We are love”, you know, “This is all about love”, “All you need is love”, at the deepest level, that’s true, that is true. But sometimes, in this material world, and in duality, you know, we’re not experiencing things from that place of death and that oneness, and so, it’s painful. But, sometimes, like, to the person that’s separate, disconnected from themselves, love can be perceived as something that doesn’t seem like love, right?

And so, yeah, it’s so important that each individual really takes responsibility for themselves, their growth and their life. And, like, your friend had the courage to face their worst nightmare and rise, because now, they can really be that bridge for anybody else that’s down in the muck like that. They get to be the example. She is the example of what that is and it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful thing when we get to see human beings, human, in such a way that, like, moves us.

[38:28] Sahara

One hundred percent! And when you’re in that death, to let yourself be there. Because, so often, we’re like “Oh, yeah, I’m dying, so I can rise, so I can be reborn, here I am”, and it’s like, let yourself be in the winter until, like, all of the leaves shed, because any of those former, like, little threads of your old identity you bring forward, is just going to show up again.

[38:51] Aubert

It will.

[38:52] Sahara

You’re going to have to go through the death thing again. So, it’s, like, been interesting, it’s like “How much can I let myself die?” Because, sometimes I’ll witness, like, this old version of me that’s like “Oh, if I go too deep, no one will ever meet me here”, you know. And it’s like, I think that’s one of the things the feminine is afraid of, of like “I can’t show my full depth, and range, and emotional self, because I’ll be too much for men, they’ll never be able to hold all of me, so let me stay surface, and stay light, and stay in the maiden energy”, and then I’m, like, catching myself, and “I’m like “No”, because I’ll attract another person who’s attracted to my maiden.

[39:26] Aubert

Boom! Right! Attracted to the show, the performance, and not, like, our true self, and that’s, like, self-abandonment, right? It’s, like, contorting ourselves to fit an image or illusion of what we think the masculine wants. And so, where does that come from?

I think it’s important for any woman to trace into their inner masculine. “What have I internalized about men, through my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father, or father figure, or brother, or past lovers?”, right, all these different configurations that influence and impact the internalized masculine, and the internalized feminine in men. You know, I think it’s so crucial to, like, work and understand these dynamics that are a part of us, right? They’re generational, they’re ancestral and it’s cultural. It’s this like, mycelial web of connectedness that, it’s just important for us to do our own work and excavate and explore, because like we said, going back to it again and again, the more we know ourselves, then the more that we’re going to be able to be with a partner who has the capacity to know us because we won’t settle for anything less.

[40:33] Sahara

Yeah. And I think, again, like, creating that evidence in your mind, meeting different people, even if they’re never going to be your partners. 

For me, it was interesting, because some of the healers and coaches that I worked through this, have been men, and it was like, so I couldn’t have the story of like “I’ll never find a conscious man”, it’s like, they’re literally coaching me, so it’s like, that’s like you and, you know, different healers and such. And it allowed me to see, of course, if I’ve only been surrounded by relatively unconscious men, then I’m going to think all men are unconscious, so if I go too deep, I’ll be too conscious for them, because that’s just who I have surrounded myself by in the past.

[41:09] Aubert

Totally, yeah! And so, to really rewrite that script, that old story, because that old story, like, held in the present, is going to gravitate and magnetize the old story. And so, the only way we can, like, really live that new story is to burn our old story, but not before excavating it, and reading, and grieving, and feeling it, like, feeling the depths of it, so that we can know where we came from, because where are we even going if we don’t know where we came from, right, if we don’t really honor who we’ve been?

You know, and so, yeah, absolutely necessary for everybody, everybody that wants partnership and wants to grow and love with someone else, to really be open to have the courage to, like, look at their past, like, look at their influences of men, you know, and like “Who was I influenced by?”, and have you really reckoned with the impact? Have you really accepted the ways that men have not shown up for you, or shown up for you? Like, do you have gratitude for the good that you did receive? It’s both, it’s both and it’s understanding, at the deepest level, that it is perfection. Sometimes we can be like “Life isn’t fair, there’s these ideas that go around”, but it’s like, if you’re on the spiritual path, if you’re listening to this Podcast, realistically, you’re conscious, you’re self-aware, your growth-driven, you want to live a beautiful life and you want to be a beautiful human being, right? At the bare minimum, if you’re listening to this Highest Self Podcast, you can resonate with that.

And so, from this place, it’s like, take ownership, take ownership to, like, expand the realm of what’s possible for you. Like, do you have faith? This is all intelligently designed by the most high love, by the supreme creator, right? If the source of all life is, like, what we experience it to be in the depths of our meditations, in the depths of our ceremonies, in the depths of our love-making, then wow, wow, the possibilities are endless! But it’s on us to actualize those possibilities by taking the actions and being honest and clear with our emotions and diving into our beliefs that might hold us back from living the fullness of what we’re here to live, you know. So, get to the roots! We’ve got to get to the roots! 


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[45:21] Sahara

And I think it’s interesting because, I feel like we all have heard “Okay, look at your relationship with your father, relationship with men”, but it might be a relationship with your brother, it might be the relationship with, I don’t know, an uncle, or it could just be another side of your father, you know.

[45:36] Aubert


[45:36] Sahara

Like, for example, with my first boyfriend that I had, like, my first main love in college, the similarity with my dad – my dad was very much a provider, and that was, like, the role he played, so, for me, men were providers. And so, this guy had a table at the club, I was like “Perfect, provider”, you know.

[45:53] Aubert

Ding, ding, ding!

[45:54] Sahara

Yeah, and then I was like “Okay, that’s not what I’m looking for”. And then, with my ex-husband, like, being, like, Middle-Eastern, and, like, similar traditional values, I, like, saw that as, like, familiar to me, and I’m like “No, that’s actually what safety is at all, you don’t need to have a similar cultural background or whatever”, and it’s just, like, from the outward-facing thing, you might be like “I’m not choosing men anything like my father”, but it’s like, what are, like, the little threads, and you start to get more fine-tuned and fine-tuned. 

Do you find that, like, women also find threads of their mothers in partners, or is it mostly, like, with the father?

[46:28] Aubert

I think there’s definitely weaves, because, like, did our mother experience the masculine, right? What were her values, and desires, and expectations and how much of that did she transmit to us, both unconsciously and consciously, right? Because, in many ways, children are groomed by our parents, to be like them, in some ways, consciously or unconsciously.

[46:50] Sahara

Was she always saying “Your dad’s a piece of shit”, or like “These men are not worthy”, or whatever the thing.

[46:56] Aubert

So many beliefs are interjected into children, right? And so, that’s why it comes down to, like, really creating the space for us to explore our own consciousness and explore ourselves and get clear about our values and what we really want on every level, like, from the depths, to the smallest detail. Like, the more clarity that we, like, hold in our consciousness, then the more we’re going to receive something that’s aligned with that clarity. And so, like, the more integrated we are, right, the more of our unconscious material that we’ve really been able to dive into, to process, to meet, to feel, to grieve, to celebrate, and the more whole we become, and then the pairings that we meet, are a reflective of that wholeness, you know. And if there does happen to be a meeting that’s not in that alignment, then we won’t stand for, because it won’t feel good, it won’t feel good, you know. And sometimes it can seem like someone checks all the boxes, but not that crucial box, right, and we just let it slide, because I think, maybe, a lot of women, and a lot of human beings in general, are used to compromising. You don’t have to compromise, I’m not here to compromise, you know, I’m here to die and be reborn and to live the greatest love story, I’m here to live, you know.

And like I’ve told Divani, even, from the very beginning of our relationship, “I love you and I’m here to love the God in you, and for that beauty, and that reciprocity to grow both of us, until God says otherwise”, like, that’s where I stand. And it might be painful, it might be challenging, it might seem like the end of the world, because it will feel like that, but I’m willing to go through the fire again and again, because that’s my dharma, that’s my path of evolution. And that’s all of us really, as human beings, like, I think we get so attached. And it’s really, that’s the root of suffering, is our attachment to life and our incapacity to really let go and really surrender. You know, it’s so much easier said than done, but life will bring us so many opportunities to continue embodying more and more of what we truly are, as long as we don’t run, as long as we don’t resist, right, as long as we don’t hide. And there’s so many ways we can cope, so many things and ways that we can, like, run, to use crutches or hold on to, like, patterns of behavior that really aren’t serving us, and we know that in our heart.

And so, I think the other piece is just so crucial for us to remember that. Tomorrow isn’t guaranteed for any of us. Tomorrow isn’t guaranteed. And sometimes we have this entitlement to life, just because we’re alive right now, in this moment. And, like, that, I think that causes the most pain in life, that causes the most regret, you know. And so, for us to check ourselves and to humble ourselves, because we don’t know the future, we don’t know what tomorrow’s going to bring, we don’t. And so, we can’t sacrifice this moment living a lie, you know, we can’t live on the hope that someone’s going to change to who we want them to be in the future. I mean, you can, that’s your choice, that’s your prerogative, but at the end of the day, knowing that our time here is so short and so precious, like, what standard do we want to hold for ourselves and the life experience that we want to have, you know. It’s that simple. And if someone’s not happy, then are you willing to take the steps that you need to be, no matter how painful they might be, to experience greater joy and deeper love?

[50:32] Sahara

Wow, full body chills as you shared all of that. And I don’t know if you want to share a little bit about your experience with death in your family, I feel like it helps really sink in those words?

[50:44] Aubert

Yeah, yeah. You know, my first, I would say, big experience with death, besides, like, when I was young, my grandfather dying in the nursing home, and different grandparents passing and transitioning. The most direct, and I would say, life-changing, completely, like, yeah, cataclysmic, was the suicide death of my sister, death by suicide. She’s my younger sister, Shonda. 

Yeah, it was actually my mom’s birthday yesterday, you know. And so, around birthdays, in my family, even my own, there’s always the remembrance of love and also of death, you know, because my sister, literally, chose to end her life five days before my birthday. And so, it took me many years to alchemize the tragedy and to really, like, move through it, because I was already on my spiritual path, I guess you could say, like, it started a year before, I mean, since birth, but it started a year before my sister ended her life. That’s when I was about to take my life and, you know. I’ve told the story many times, but God, literally, saved my life in a miraculous, spiritual, mystical experience and it shifted my orientation from Atheism to, like “Oh, no sis, God is real, God saved my life, I have a reason to be here”. But I was still, ultimately, like, spiritually bypassing so much of my trauma, I didn’t have the inner resource at the time, I was coming off of addiction, I didn’t have the outer support to really face that stuff. And so, I was bypassing, I was meditating hours a day, I was praying hours every day, I was spending time in nature, I was isolating and disconnecting from everything, but this really, kind of, gave me the stability and grounding that I needed for the next stage of my journey, which is facing the death of my sister and which initiated my path into deeper healing, brought my family into group therapy, first family therapy to reckon with her suicide and how shocking and devastating it was for all of us, you know. We were all living in a household, my sister was suffering from mental illness, schizo-effective disorder, which is like a blend of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. And these are just names that we place upon, like, complex phenomena which, there are reasons. I believe that there’s, like, a tendency in our modern world to pathologize mental illness, but if we had a correct and holistic, ontological orientation and reality and to what this is all about, then we wouldn’t, like, pathologize it, we would seek to understand it, and, like, the roots of it, which is treat the symptoms.

But yeah, going back, you know, my experience with my sister’s death plunged us onto the underworld, plunged myself, my mother, my sister, deep into the underworld where we had to reckon with the roots of our pain, ancestrally, familially, you know, my father’s absence, the void that he left in our household, the impact that that had on myself and my sisters and my mother, you know. And so, really, living in the shadows of depression and mental illness from a pretty early age and having to reckon with, like, a life where the model for a woman in our household (my mother) was someone who was definitely overwhelmed with three children, as a single mother, definitely depressed, you know, definitely trying her best to hold it all together as a foreigner in the US, isn’t her first language, and coming in, also, with a lot of trauma and a lot of scarcity. And so, living like a single mother, you know, with three kids and a man who left you and shame from your culture because this happened, and all these things that she had to contend with herself, it created, really, I think, the environment for a lot of internalized negative self-image and lack of worth (for my sisters), right, the story is right there, right? That’s how trauma crosses generationally, epigenetically, right? We have a model of our mother and father, and that goes into us and it becomes us, and we have to work it through, and sometimes it gets stifled because of other reasons and it might manifest as mental illness, because, like, there isn’t the outer support or inner capacity or space for healing, for that to shift. And so, it’s like a symptom of being developmentally arrested and in a toxic soup, you could call it. That’s why our capacity to have compassion and love and understanding for all human beings, you know, like, you say, you see that meme, you know, ‘be kind because you never know what someone’s going through’, you never know. 

And so, that’s why it’s so important to, like, love our neighbors as ourself, as Yeshua said, you know, to, like, pray for our enemies and those who persecute us, like, there’s so much deep truth there. 

And so, as I was going through my awakening process, it really blessed me because God guided me to pray with my sister every day, to meditate with her. And I tried my best because I really wanted to save her life, because after I freed myself from addiction, or I used to say “God freed me from addiction”, and I stayed committed to it, I committed myself to trying to save my sister, because she was hearing voices and she was, like, gaining a lot of weight, she was, like, on seven different psych meds, she’s been in and out of hospital. And so, we all cope in different ways with familial trauma, mine was addiction, and running away, and living in my ego and trying to, you know, grind or attain a status or, like, what I believed what would make me happy or make me more secure, make me a man, because I lacked that model in my household. You know, my father was in and out and he, you know, left when we were 11 to when I was 23, and so there’s this big gap, crucial years. 

But yeah, reckoning with death, with my sister’s suicide and, like, having that year before when I had awakened to ultimate reality and was, like, trying my best to love her in all the ways that I could and all the ways that I knew how to. It allowed me, I guess, the peace, like, when the time came, to know, like, know that I tried my best.

And I think a lot of people regret not trying their best in relationship, and only we can know for ourselves whether we’re trying our best or not, you know, only we can know for ourselves. But at the end of the day, me knowing that I tried my best with my little sister – and the day that she actually died, I was guided to say a bunch of things to her that I didn’t normally say, and I was, like, dropping her off at a doctor’s appointment, I just told her. You know, I was driving and I was like “I love you so much, and we love you so much”, and I would tell her I loved her, but, like, this was, like, from the depths of me, like, my soul speaking to her soul, I was like “It’s all going to be okay, we’re not going to give up on you, like, we love you so much and I’m always going to be here”, you know, just pouring my heart out to her as I was going to drop her off. Like, my soul knew, I didn’t know, I was just like, in the moment with her. And I just remember her looking back in the car and looking in my eyes, and she was like “Everything is going to be alright Albie”, that was my nickname growing up, “Things are going to be alright”, “I know, everything’s going to be alright”, you know. I got the call there, I was at work, later that night, from my mom, I was like “Wow”, shocking, like, I was just in shock, couldn’t believe it, couldn’t even feel it. 

And so, it was years, again, we, of course, cried, cried and broke apart seeing her body, and it was, like, so sad in that moment, and I was crying for my mother too, who was just so broken, and, like, really her forgetfulness and dementia really began after the death of my sister because she wanted to forget. It was so painful that she just wanted to forget, you know. Seeing her body, lifeless body, is just like, it’s real, you know.

And so, it literally was an initiation into the underworld, it was really a reckoning with all the pain that I had come from and the beginning of my process of excavation and self-exploration to understand why I did the things that I did, why I was the way that I was, why did I hurt people the way I did, why did I, with reality, in such a distorted way, you know. So, it really sent me deep into my human healing journey, you know. So, along with, like, the spiritual revelation that God is real and that God is the meaning and reason for my life, there’s also like “Okay, now that you got that foundation, you’ve got to go through the fire, you’ve got to face the pain, you’ve got to face all the things that led you into addiction, that led you into living from your ego, right, to be so defended and afraid and angry, right.

And so, I bless my sister and I thank her and I’m so grateful for her and I love her forever, beyond time and space. And she blessed my life immeasurably, in life and in death, in life and in death. And she continues on, I truly deeply believe that as a consciousness, as a soul, it just goes on, you know. I don’t know where she’s at, I don’t even want to assume, you know, but I do believe that when we leave these bodies, and I’ve had an experience of this, that showed me that this is the case. We are what we are, energetically, we are energy beings, and so, our energy goes to the realm or the energy, we go, like attract like. And so, when you say like, when people say things like hell or heaven, it’s all right here and right now, in this eternal time and space, right, it’s all happening right here and right now, seen and unseen. 

And so, that’s why it’s so important for us, principally speaking, to live from the depths, to live for our why and to really recognize that, you know, since we’re here to become level at the deepest level, to experience the depths of love, that it’s important to live that love out loud, to express it, to share it, to not hold it back because people, more often, regret what they didn’t do than what they did. You know, so, even if we make a mistake, that mistake can get turned into something beautiful, but if we hold back and don’t even do that, don’t even make the mistake for fear, then, like, our choice to live by fear, like, limits our capacity for growth and it usually ends in, like, greater tragedy because, like, when a soul’s, like, about to leave this earth, it’s like, you know, you hear about all the things that people have, the regrets on their death bed “I wish I would have done this”, “I wish I would’ve been not so afraid”, “Not have been so limited”, “Not held back”, “Tried this”, “Done that”, you know. Like, we’re here to experience and to explore and to evolve. And so, like, that’s the number one thing is, to have the courage to face the fear, and I did that, I faced my fears, I faced my fears and that gave me the strength to live from love. It’s not to say that I never act from fear, I’m imperfect and I’m still growing, it’s ever-evolving, but I live from love. I live from love, and even if I, in the moment, might react in anger, or fear, or misalignment, there’s awareness there, there’s refinement there that I get to lean into, you know. 

So, yeah, bless my sister, Shonda Lane Little, born May 22, 1985, I love you so much. And really, her death catapulted my journey. And that’s, like, I realized, after so many years of healing, you know. She ended her life in 2009, it’s 2023 now, over a decade of healing this wound with my sister that, after I healed the wound, the human, it became a spiritual blessing, a soul blessing and I see it more and more, and I feel it more and more, that her death infused my life with an unwillingness. I have to live for both of us, that’s how I felt and that’s the commitment I made her. I’m going to live for both of us now, I’m going to live for both of us, I’m going to live even more. And I do that, I’m still doing that, I’m still living that.

[1:03:06] Sahara

You are. I think we all feel her with you right now, and she’s so loved. And the fact that her soul, like, chose this mission of helping awaken the masculine…

[1:03:19] Aubert


[1:03:21] Sahara

You know, through her ability to awaken the feminine in you.

[1:03:27] Aubert


[1:03:28] Sahara

Awaken your heart so you can have both poles, so you can help men awaken into both sides, which helps the healing of the collective, of all of the women who, like, your mom, haven’t been met.

[1:03:41] Aubert

Yeah, yeah, totally. I saw from my dad, now it’s his blessing. I love my dad, I get along great with him now, you know. We get so much from our parents and until we do our own work, we’re going to spend so much energy blaming them, you know, and like, really displacing our own responsibility, because it is perfect, at the deepest level. And, like, yes, does that mean, like, you know, they people would, like, contort “Oh, does that mean, like, rape, like, divine, perfect or, like this or that?”, and my answer is, like, if that’s the expression, then yes; if that’s happening right now, that’s someone’s free will choice, that’s karma and that’s universal lot play. And so, whatever is right now, in the world right now, it is the highest perfection based on our own relationship to life, our own relationship to ourself and our understanding of why we’re here and what God is. What is the Universe? What is this? And so, once we know what is and, like, why we’re here, it all makes sense. And then, we can start moving with courage because it continues on and we don’t have forever. 

And so, like, Carlos Castaneda, you know, he wrote so many beautiful books in his relationship and apprenticeship with Don Juan Mattus, who’s this incredible yacky sage, who was really, like, walking that path of enlightenment. And he shared with Carlos Castaneda, who was a UCLA student of Anthropology, and he shared with him “You don’t have time for none of this bullshit, death is stalking you, it’s stalking us all, you don’t have forever, cut the crap, right, because we put up with so much crap, like, our own crap and other people’s crap, it’s too short, life is too short for that. We’ve got to live, we’ve got to live and we’ve got to love, we’ve got to experience what brings us to life, what makes us feel joy, and gratitude, and alignment right. Like, yes, this is what I’m here for!” You know, and sometimes, even in the depths of pain, it’s like, urgh, it hurts so good and I’m here for this because I know that this death is leading to rebirth and I’m here for love, and I’m here for life, and I’m here for God.

And so, you know, anything that brings me this uncomfort, like, I’m not here to run from it anymore, I’m here to face it. And I pray, for anybody listening, you know, that you open your heart and you find the courage within yourself, to just be honest with yourself, just be honest. Like, is this what you want? Is this the life that you want? If not, then take the steps to change it, you have everything you need within you right now, to completely transform your life to what you want it to be. Make the choice!

[1:06:34] Sahara

Just, like, full body, like, these are the exact same downloads that I have been receiving through all of this, and, like, recognizing, when I was in my early 20s, going through my health crisis and my dad disowning me, and all the things like that, you don’t know that there’s another side, you’re like “This is my reality and it fucking sucks!” But then, to go through an even darker night of the soul, 10 years later, having known your mess becomes your message, and your pain becomes your purpose, and, like – what I would tell myself in my early 20s, I’m like “This is just the shitty part of my memoire, it’s fine”. And here I am now, in the situation that feels unjust, and unfair, and wrong, and all of the ways, and I’m like “This is just the shitty part of my next memoire”, you know.

[1:07:22] Aubert

I love that.

[1:07:24] Sahara

And it feels like being awake within a dream because you know that this obstacle is only going to take you to greater heights, you don’t know what those greater heights are. I still don’t know what they are now, I’m still in this, like, birth canal of the unknown. But all you can do is trust that it’s taking you places that your conscious mind just could never before, that this former way could before. And also, some people can only teach you lessons in their absence. It’s like, certain lessons, their absence is the only, they can say those things, the exact same things to you, but only, them not being in your life, your sister, former partners, whomever it is, it’s the absence that actually catalyzes and metamorphosizes this growth in a way that the comfort of having them in your life would not have.

[1:08:13] Aubert

Yeah, that’s so true, and that’s such a beautiful punctuation on all of this, because that’s duality, that’s life, in this physical form, right? We are spirit embodied into form, spirits having a human experience, whatever you want to say. But at the core of it, you know, if we can really live that, right, like, to live our dharma, to live that truth, and we have the trust in life to live it, oh, it’s only going to lead to more and more beauty. But not without the death, not without the darkness, not without it.

And so, you hear, so many of us, right, in this movement, talking about healing and all tools and all the ways, right, and there’s, like, this kind of backlash against it. And I understand the backlash, but I think that that backlash is probably coming from people who spend too much time online and, like, living the digital or illusory reality vs, like, living their own life. Are you really, like, I mean, I guess we do, like, it’s like, we talk about it a lot, but it’s like, because it’s needed a lot. Like, what are we reckoning from?

[1:09:20] Sahara

It’s the most important work that we can do.

[1:09:23] Aubert

We’re coming from genocide, famine, like, civilization collapse, like, generationally, from, like, the most difficult things – war, it’s still happening! Like, this is our lineage, this is what we come from, right? 

The primitivism, you know, the darkness, the separation of what we will do to another when we’re in separation, when we’re in fear, when we’re not in our heart. And so, we get to reckon with that in real time by saying yes to life, by saying yes to our hearts, by choosing the difficult path of opening and keeping our hearts open even through the darkness, even though the challenge, because that’s when the real test is. It can say all these things and say you live this mantra, but when the going gets tough and you’re going through the fire, can you still be loving, can you still hold space, are you willing to do the work to heal? 

You know, and sometimes healing looks like “Peace, I’m out”, you know, it really does. And so, that’s why I loved what you said when you said like, sometimes we can learn from others in their absence, because that’s another side of love, is to let go, is the absence, is the void, such a great teacher.

[1:10:39] Sahara

So many beautiful, just, portals! I know the person listening to this right now is, like, heart chakra blasted open. 

And ultimately, it’s exactly that, it’s the choice, you know, because we’re all going to have major obstacles in life that are karmic and ancestral and feel like the deepest wounds, like “That word designed for you to grow from”, and it’s like “This, that thing that I would never want, happened to me?!”, and it’s, like, because you’re the ancestor in your lineage who’s brave enough to clear it. And you have the choice, you can choose to numb out, you can choose to forget about it, to go on social media, to take a bunch of drugs to do the things, but it’s going to keep popping its head and popping its head, until the next generation, the next generation, until there’s an ancestor who is. And it’s like, people say, you know “Hurt people, hurt people” and “Trauma creates trauma”, until there’s a person who’s brave and responsible enough to make it stop.

[1:11:42] Aubert


[1:11:43] Sahara

And let’s that be us.

[1:11:45] Aubert

Yeah, the cycle-breaker.

[1:11:46] Sahara


[1:11:46] Aubert

Yeah, because darkness turns into light when we’re willing to love it.

[1:11:51] Sahara

And that’s the ultimate transmutation and alchemy, is, can we be brave enough to be like “Nope, you hurt me and I’m not going to continue this pain”.

[1:12:01] Aubert

Yeah! And that takes incredible self-love, it all comes back to self-love, and that’s capital ‘S’, Self-love, that’s the God within us! Not the separate self, not the provisional personality, not the trauma and the wounds, capital ‘S’ self, the highest self.

[1:12:21] Sahara

The highest self! Here we are again, full circle! So, where can listeners connect with you? Personally, I know you do coaching, and then, of course, if you could tell us a bit about Sacred Sons, because I know there’s a lot of listeners who would really benefit from either joining themselves, for male listeners, or having their partners, brothers, fathers, siblings, join the Sacred Sons movement?

[1:12:45] Aubert

Yeah, beautiful! Yeah, you can connect with me on social media, on @aubertbastiat on Instagram, you can shoot me a DM or schedule a call if you want to dive deeper.

[1:12:54] Sahara

And we’ll have your links on the show notes.

[1:12:56] Aubert

Okay, well, there you go!  But yeah, Sacred Sons was a vision that came through two days after my son Tyler was born. And so, it really is about the return of the father archetype, the father archetype being God, the return of God embodied and the orientation around the sacred, you know. And so, everybody has different definitions of what the sacred is, but my definition of the sacred is the ineffable, it’s the reason we’re here, it’s the source of all life, it’s that which I bow to and humble myself to, you know.

And so, Sacred Sons, you know, it really speaks to what all men are here to be. So, regardless of the brotherhood, the organization, that I helped co-create, Sacred Sons is what men are here to be, it’s what we are, despite, you know, where a man might be on his journey. Not every man is going to wake up to that reality that they are a sacred son, maybe not in this lifetime, maybe one down the road, but for a man to come to a point in his life, where he can say “Yes, I am sacred. There’s parts of me that are sacred, that I want to dive deeper into, that I want to explore. There’s probably parts of me that need to be met, you know, in a space like brotherhood, in an all-men’s space, you know, I’m courageous enough to dive into myself and face, maybe, potential fears of being with a lot of other men, conscious men”. You know, we’re all holding different energies, you know, within a brotherhood, and so, it really is, there’s a gravitational pole. You know, and so, beyond the brotherhood, the organization and the movement that I did is, what it really is, is an invitation for men to reclaim their sacred and that all men are sacred, and all women are sacred, all life is sacred, that’s at the core of it. And there’s just many different examples of men, to really provide a whole picture.

You know, for the boys that we work with, we have an incredible Sons Youth program, shout-out Trevor Spring, for bringing that through, working with boys, I believe it’s 12, I want to say 12-19, but it’s so important that we back these rites of passage, you know, these initiatory rights, this way of brotherhood and the way of sisterhood. It’s so important that we can congregate and feel the safety in a same sex container, to really dive in and explore parts of ourselves that might otherwise not feel safe enough to emerge. And it even takes some men, you know, multiple times, in the brotherhood, in different experiences. And there’s lots of ways to do the work. Sacred Sons is one way to do the work in community, in brotherhood and explore what that might mean, you know, so to be able to explore and experience one’s consciousness and one’s relationship to being a man in this lifetime, and it’s profound. And it’s not only at Sacred Sons, there’s many different brotherhoods, there’s many different spaces you can find this, but yeah, Sacred Sons is unique in really being a purveyor in deep ceremonial, communal, brotherhood experiences. I think that really expand our remembrance and our longing for more, so it’s a direct way to have an experience of something sacred and something really profound, to take us deeper on our path.

[1:16:20] Sahara

And you guys have gatherings, and convergences, and retreats.

[1:16:23] Aubert

We had 450 men at our last convergence, including the youth. So, from the youth, all the way to the elders, we were all gathered there, doing the deep work, and really, it was a beautiful orchestration, and, you know, God was there, Spirit was there, our ancestors were there, the youth were there, elders were there, indigenous land blessings, shout-out Yona, our Cherokee elder, uncle, who sang a song about the ancient future. And so, it really does feel, in these times, right now, where there’s so much division, so much fear, so much chaos, promulgated by media, you know, in different avenues of human, kind of, disconnection, like, to really, like, come back together in-person and to really spend time resonating in a deeper way, connecting in a deeper way. 

I think we all long for greater depth, not everybody, and that’s fine if you don’t, but you’re probably not listening, so. 

Yeah, just so crucial for us all to, right now, really get clear about what we want and to find the spaces where we can explore what we want and to deepen into our dharma. And Sacred Sons is definitely a space and a place you can do that.

[1:17:33] Sahara

Every time someone messages me, they’re like “What’s, like, a male version of Rose Gold Goddesses?”, I’m like “Sacred Sons”, because you guys – what I love that you’re doing, and I highly recommend people checking that on Instagram, because I think it’s a really good way to kind of, like, see some, like, image and videos. But it’s very earthy, it’s very primal, it’s very masculine, like, you know, from, like, the conscious, like, wrestling that you guys are doing…

[1:17:57] Aubert

Hey, it’s ritual combat!

[1:17:58] Sahara

Ritual combat! And these beautiful ritual ceremonial gatherings. And I feel like a lot of men, you know, they’re drawn to sports because they desire to be a part of the brotherhood and something greater, and use their bodies and combat, and you guys have kind of infused this, like, deep, primal, masculine urge which is, like, so beautiful. We want the hunter in you, you know, to be alive, with this, like, sacredness and reverence of the elders, and the land, and the women, and the children. And it’s so beautiful to witness! 

So, I highly recommend for people listening, if they’re male, to go, or if – and I think you guys also accept people who identify as males, and then also, for women who are like “You know, I have a partner or a brother, whoever else”, this is such a beautiful initiatory way to just, like, get them in the world, you know, because it’s, like, it’s sometimes hard to wrap your head around this when you’re just reading a book or listening to a podcast or something, but to be in the vibration, the energy, all of these, like, beautiful, heart open, but also, like, warrior men, it’s – and I’ve heard from men who have gone, a lot of men said “I carried fear about being around with a bunch of other men”.

[1:19:13] Aubert

Yeah, it’s common.

[1:19:14] Sahara

Or because being bullied, or because of whatever the thing is, “I wasn’t good at sports”.

[1:19:19] Aubert

All the things.

[1:19:19] Sahara

So, it’s so healing because, you know, a lot of us women, we’re going to goddess circles and gatherings, but, like, for the men to be around other men, and like, really heal their wounds and become safe in their masculinity, which allows them to show up so much more for the feminine.

[1:19:32] Aubert

Totally! Yeah, it’s the work and, you know, it’s definitely the part of the work. And the other part of the work is, you know, work with the feminine, you know, and together. Really, that’s the high vision and I’m trusting that vision unfolding and having sacred union events and just gatherings where we can do, you know, the alchemy that’s necessary for masculine and feminine. So, for me, that’s really the edge, you know, but after, like, really growing the grounds of Sacred Sons, with my brothers, for the past, almost, five years now, and we have many, you know, we stand on the shoulders of giants, you know. That’s a saying in this work and just do. 

You know, we come from a long line of beautiful, incredible souls and human beings and spiritual giants, shout-out Yeshua, Buddha, Krishna and all the divine teachers out there, but really, like, this is like a resurgence of consciousness. And like, the men are needed, you are needed brother, we are all needed right now, to show up and to face the darkness within and without.

[1:20:34] Sahara

Absolutely! Well, thank you so much for sharing such beautiful, and grounded, and wise codes with us today, it was deeply felt and experienced. And thank you for opening up and sharing your story. And your sister’s spirit is with us here today.

[1:20:49] Aubert

Yeah, thank you for inviting me.

[1:20:51] End of Interview


[1:20:52] Sahara

Wow! Let’s just all take a deep breath together and let this conversation land because there is so much for us to dive into, for us to really allow, to calibrate into our being before going off to the next thing.

[1:21:11] Sahara

In my own process, really honoring the death-rebirth cycle has been the most profound teaching, letting ourselves fully die for the be version of us to be born.

So, if you’re in that right now, I feel you, and let it all crumble down because from that space, from that sacred void, the new version of you can birth through.

[1:21:30] Sahara

So, thank you so much for tuning in. If you loved this Episode, please leave a review on the iTunes Store and as a free gift, I will send you my Womb Meditation, which connects you to your wombs wisdom so you can hear her answers and really receive the sacred downloads from within yourself.

So, head over to the iTunes Store, wherever you listen to podcasts on Apple, leave a review and take a screenshot and email it over to me at [email protected] and you can find that link in the show notes.

[1:21:59] Sahara

Thank you so much for tuning in and I’ll see you in the next one. Namaste!                                    

Episode #486: How To Date + Be In A Relationship With the Conscious Masculine with Aubert Bastiat
By Sahara Rose

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