Sahara Rose · 398: Creating a More Joyful World with Sadhguru

Episode 398: Creating a More Joyful World with Sadhguru
By Sahara Rose

[00:12] Sahara
Namaste, it’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes You, Your Soul’s Highest Evolvement.

[00:20] Sahara
I am so beyond excited to share this Episode with you because I got the honor and privilege to interview someone who is one of the most influential people in the world.
You may know this man, his name is Sadhguru, and really, he is here on a global mission to bring joy and peace and love and unity back to humanity.

[00:45] Sahara
And this interview really was years and years and years in the making, and got to occur in such divine timing because I feel, collectively, we’re at this place that we don’t want to suffer anymore, we don’t want to give up our power to what’s happening in the world outside of us and the pain and the hardship and the atrocities, and we’re truly wanting to reclaim that sovereignty that we have and give back to community, to merge together the I and the we, and to be able to live in joy while helping the pain and suffering of the world, and that’s really what this Podcast is about.

[01:25] Sahara
So, in preparing for this interview, I gathered hundreds of questions from you all, on questions that you had for Sadhguru, and combined them of my own to come up with a series of questions that are really pressing for today’s times – how we can find joy with the suffering happening, how we can live in community, how we can find our own balance with technology, his take on spiritual bypass, which I think you’ll find really funny, and his way of just seeing things from this higher perspective.
And to me, the biggest takeaway I got from spending this time with Sadhguru, was that he is so focused on the collective, he doesn’t let himself get bogged down by everyday dramas and problems and it was just such a reminder for me of just “Don’t worry about what that random person said” or “What’s happening in that situation”, or any of these little trivial things that I feel we give so much of our energetic currency to. It allowed me to realize that when you focus on the big picture, which for him is planting millions upon millions of trees around the world and helping create healthy soil so farmers can have regenerative farming once again, and to also give back to so many children, particularly orphans in India. These are big picture things to be spending your time with and it’s such a reminder to us, that we do have so much power, if only we focus on what matters, not what matters right now, at this moment of time, how I’m feeling, but what will actually matter 50 years from now. And if it doesn’t matter 50 years from now, don’t spend your time on it now.

[02:55] Sahara
So, this is such a powerful conversation, it has to be one of my favorites I’ve done on this Podcast, ever, and I’m so excited to share it with you.

[03:04] Sahara
So, without further ado, let us welcome Sadhguru to The Highest Self Podcast.

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[04:13] Interview

[04:13] Sahara
Namaste! Welcome Sadhguru to The Highest Self Podcast.

[04:17] Sadhguru
Namaste Sahara!

[04:19] Sahara
Thank you so much!

[04:21] Sadhguru
Oh, Sahara Rose, you’re a desert blossom?

[04:24] Sahara
Exactly! It’s the rose blossoming, even in the desert, where there is no water, continuing life.

[04:30] Sadhguru
I named our monthly magazine as Forest Flower, you are a step ahead and said Desert Rose.

[04:38] Sahara
Well, we’re so grateful to have you here on the Podcast, you’ve been such an influence in my life and in the lives of so many.
And the first question I would love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

[04:52] Sadhguru
Well, I don’t know what is high and low really within me, I’m at full throttle all the time, so, there is no high and low. I don’t see one thing more important than the other, I don’t see one thing as sacred, another thing as filthy, I don’t see one thing as high and another thing as low. So, all these highs and lows that are outside in the world, within myself, I’ve leveled it all out at a peak.

[05:26] Sahara
Yeah, that integration of all parts of you, and seeing all parts of them as sacred.

[05:31] Sadhguru
I mean, I don’t even have to call it sacred or filthy, it’s just what it is.

[05:36] Sahara
Well, right now, I feel so many of us are struggling with that, we’re feeling like every time we turn on the news or go on social media, there’s so much cruelty, violence, injustice in the world, and it can feel very overwhelming and create a lot of anxiety.
So, what is your advice for those of us who, we seek to be aware, but sometimes may lose ourselves in this spiral of another catastrophe happening in another part of the world?

[06:05] Sadhguru
See, talking about violence and cruelty, catastrophes, well, in that sense, we are the generation of people that are very, very fortunate. Actually, we have minimum levels of violence, the world is far less violent than ever before in the history of humanity.
If you back on the history of this world, the level of violence that people have faced, particularly different groups of people have faced this, but particularly women have had it so bad for centuries or millennia. This is probably the first or second generation which is beginning to find some freedom, some freedom of expression, some sense of sanity in their lives, really.
So, I don’t think we should complain about it, it’s better than ever before. Well, still a lot of things need to be fixed, we have to strive for that, but that’s not an overnight job that needs culturing of a society, which takes a certain amount of time, certain fundamentals in the society, having various killed and wrongly perceived. So, trying to fix the surface without fixing the basis is an effort that’s going on everywhere, but it will not ail results, it will really ail temporary results, but it will not ail a long-term result.
So, do we have the courage to address the fundamentals of our life? That’s what divine engineering is about, do you have the courage the very fundamentals of who you are? If you address that only, genuinely, well-being will come to yourself and to everyone.
So, people who are seeking well-being for everyone, first thing is, they should look at themselves. If you do not know how to be well, how will you create well-being for everybody else? If you do not know how to be peaceful, how will you make the world peaceful? If you do not know how to be joyful, how will you make somebody else joyful? It’s not going to work.
So, right now, this is the effort that’s going on. A lot of people who are deeply disturbed within themselves are trying to create world peace, miserable people are talking about joy, no, no, it’s very, very important that you must be the first subject. Can you make this peaceful, joyful and genuinely well? If you make this this way, then how to impact the world in a similar way will come to you, how much impact you create, depends from person to person, and also in the times in which we exist.
Suppose this, let us say this was 1942, you and me can talk as much as we want, people who are shooting each other and bombing each other will go on doing it. So, it is also the times in which we exist. What we can do in the world is not largely ours, it is also a consequence of the times.
So, we should not misunderstand, or we should not exaggerate small things that we see. I’m not saying a person (one person) being killed is a small thing, it’s a terrible thing, it’s as good as killing a million people, it is not any different, but it is extremely important that we understand that peace or well-being doesn’t just happen with a magic wand, it is a generational striving that could deliver us there.

[09:33] Sahara
Thank you so much for expressing that. And I think what many of us struggle with is a feeling of guilt, a feeling of “Oh, well, if I’m not aware and deeply in the battle, then I’m not doing enough.”
So, what is your take on this? There’s this word, I don’t know if you’ve heard it before – spiritual bypass. It’s a word that people are saying that “Oh, you’re bypassing over the realities of the world by saying “Oh, we’re all one”, or using spiritual terminology. so, I think a lot of us struggle with that, because we want to connect to that unity consciousness, but we also don’t want to be considered bypassing over realities.

[10:14] Sadhguru
Sahar, if you’re not doing enough, I’ve got a lot of work for you!

[10:18] Sahara
Okay, I’m in!

[10:21] Sadhguru
I got so much work for everybody if they’re willing to do it.Aand why should any human being be doing less than what they can do? See, in our lives, if we do not do what we cannot do, no problem, but if we do not do what we can do, we are a disastrous life. It’s my wish that either you or anybody else, should not become such a disaster, everything that we can do must happen.
About spiritual bypass (that’s a good term), because people think spirituality means ‘of the other world’. Spirituality is not of the other world, it is a core of this world. If you live on the surface, you’re materialistic, if you touch a deeper core, you’re spiritual. You’re not saying spirit is floating in the clouds, though they’ve been talking about it for a long time, you fit all, if there is any spirit, it’s within you. So, you can either touch your skin, or a little deeper, or a little deeper, or the very core. So, if you touch the very core of who you are, this is spiritual process, how will it ever be a bypass? It will not be a bypass, it will be a deeper involvement. If you’re truly spiritual, you will show much deeper involvement with everything around you, than those who are not spiritual, because those who are materialistic are always calculating “If I do this, what will I get?” So, a spiritual person means that you have transcended one calculation, “What will I get” is gone from you, because “What will I get” is gone from you, your life is in a certain state of abandon, out of this, you are in a certain state of joy and blissfulness. This does not mean you will bypass the world, actually, if you’re joyful and blissful by your own nature, you’re willing to put yourself in any given situation because, any way is not going to torture you or trouble you.
I must tell you this, when everybody was talking about going to Heaven and those kind of things, Gautama (The Buddha) said “What will I do in Heaven if everybody seems to be well there? What will I do there? I will go to Hell!”, they asked why, he said “Well, people seem to be suffering, let me go and do something there. Anyway, I cannot suffer, I’ve made myself like this, but anyway, I’m joyful, so I will go to Hell.” Even today, Buddhist scriptures refer to “Buddha is in the Lower World not in the Upper World”, this is absolute freedom. So, if you are genuinely spiritual, if you attain to a certain state of equanimity and bliss, within you, then you will not shun any activity, nor will you try to shook everything, because wherever you go, your well-being is assured. When your well-being is assured, you can get in the worst possible situations and do the best that you can do. So, spirituality is definitely not a bypass. Spirituality is a profound involvement with life.

[13:29] Sahara
I love that so much! And really, when you’re joyful, you become sovereign, you become less affected by what’s happening in the outside world, that you can be in Hell, you can be in the suffering, because you’re not affected by it.
And I think it’s changing that perception that joyful is leaving this human experience, but rather seeing as a deep immersion in the core of who we truly are underneath it all.

[13:52] Sadhguru
This is the biggest mistake that humanity has made. We have always been trying to produce good people. So, these good people are the biggest problem on the planet because a good Christian is fighting a good Muslim, a good Indian is fighting a good Pakistani, a good American is fighting just about anybody.

[14:21] Sahara
Each other!

[14:22] Sadhguru
The more good you think you are, the more in conflict you are. We don’t need good people because goodness comes from an assumption that I’m better than you. If I’m good, how do I become good? Or you’re looking at you “You are not okay”, “She’s not okay”, “He’s not okay”, “That one is not okay”, “This one is not okay”, compared to all these people I’m a good man, without comparison.
So, you are a desert flower, if you are the only blossom, are you a beautiful flower or an ugly flower? There is no such thing because there is only one, only in comparison something becomes ‘this’ and ‘that’. So, this goodness is always in comparison with somebody.
We have made somebody bad in our mind, from that we can conclude we are good. We don’t need good people; we need joyful and sensible human beings on this planet. And have you seen, when you’re joyful, you’re not in conflict with anybody? And you do the most wonderful things when you’re happy.

[15:23] Sahara
I remember you once saying “There aren’t good or bad people, there’s only joyful and miserable people” and this allows us to have so much compassion, and I think that, right now, a lot of the terminology is ‘The darkness is taking over’.
So, what is your perception on is there a darkness out there or is this is just trauma that actually also thinks it’s doing the best it can?

[15:50] Sadhguru
Oh, I wish darkness takes over. See, I’m dark-skinned, so what’s wrong with me? You think something dark means it’s something wrong? No, no, this is a racist idea. Dark is not bad, dark is good. Isn’t it the darkness of the night which gives you relief from the relentless light of the day?
So, this idea that darkness is something negative, something bad, is essentially coming from a certain color of the skin. I think we should keep it aside. Darkness is good, darkness is coming means, maybe they were saying this in the evening, yes, it’s definitely coming. Early morning you can say light is coming.

[16:36] Sahara
Yes, I definitely see that, of how that can perpetrate colorism and I think a lot of us have grown up with religious programming that creates this duality and the separation of you’re either a good guy or a bad guy; you’re fighting for the light or you’re fighting for the “darkness”.
So, for those of us who want to elevate consciousness, do you think it’s important to even be aware of this “darkness, badness” etc. or just sort of ignore it and go on and creating the kind of world you want to be a part of?

[17:09] Sadhguru
See, if you want to make judgments on people or situations, our communities, our nations, our races, our religions, well, everybody, they will accept you, so never get into that business. There is nobody here who is perfect; there is nobody here who is a hundred percent horrible. Everybody is oscillating between being horrible and wonderful, people are going between this, it’s just that on which side your pendulum swings too much, is the question.
So, some will do horrible things in the name of goodness, some will simply do it, some will do wonderful things simply out of their joy, some will do it because of something that they believe in.
So, people who believe they’re good, as good nations, as good religions, as good morally good people, they have done the most cruel things on the planet. I want you to know, the most horrendous things on the planet have been done by people who believe they are doing a great thing. Even now, there’s a whole lot of people who do horrible things and they believe they’re doing God’s own work.
So, we don’t need such judgments, what we need is, we want our humanity to overflow. We are too much invested in a world that we have not seen. It’s time that you invest in a world you know, the world that you experience, the world in which you exist and see how to make this wonderful.
This whole idea that there is a Heaven to go to – Heaven means it’s a better place than this. This idea that there is a better place than this is the most criminal idea on the planet. This is the place, this is the most wonderful place, because you have not seen any other place, the rest is all just sales talk. Nobody has seen a better world than this. What is the proof? Do you have any proof to tell me that you’re not already in Heaven and messing it up? You are in Heaven and making a mess out of it! This earth is a heavenly body, if you go out in the space and look at it this, this is a heavenly body floating in the Milky Way. What more do you want? It’s just that those who are joyful are joyful, those who are miserable and messing it up are messing it up, but the number of people messing it up, when they increase, they will make sure they spread misery and disaster all around them, either in the form of wars or in the form of strife or in the form of ecological degradation, in so many different ways. So, it is important we create joyful and sensible human beings, we don’t need righteous human beings, we don’t need people who believe that God is talking to them and they will do the right things at any costs, well, they will want to transform you or they want to fix you. What if you don’t want to be fixed? I’m saying leave them alone.
I’m saying I have worked with prison inmates for the last 23-24 years, I worked and I’ve spent time with the worst kind of criminals, I’m saying they’ve come from horrible crimes, murder, rape, many, many double murders, triple murders kind of people, but when they are with me, they are such wonderful guys, absolutely wonderful guys. But if you meet them somewhere when they are not happy, they can do terrible things. Some of the best insurance that you have for humanity is, we need to create a joyful world. If there are joyful human beings, the chances of them doing ugly things, is not gone, but is greatly depleted.

[21:00] Sahara
I so agree, wholeheartedly, with you, and thank you for sharing that example of even someone who in one miserable situation could commit a murder and another could be a humorous conversation, it allows us to have compassion towards and their choices and not create an overarching label that sticks with them forever, based off of one momentary experience.

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[23:43] Sahara
So, right now, a lot of us are desiring, we’re feeling that we’re “meant” (and I use this with quotes because not everyone believes this), but meant to live in community. And many of us, right now, are thinking “What does this look like? Does this look like a more traditional method that we all buy land and grow our food together or is it a more modern way of finding homes in the same neighborhood?”
I think what a lot of us struggle with is we’ve grown up in this Western mindset that we’ve had our Amazons delivered to us and everything that we’ve wanted, that it may be difficult to transition to a collective-based community. So, what are your thoughts on people moving back to living in community and how can this be done?

[24:27] Sadhguru
So, well, I think it’s very, very important, this individualistic existence. See, for example, in India, just a generation, or two generations, ago – I have been in families, not my family but I’ve been a guest in families where there were over 400 people in one home, large home, and a bunch of kids all over, whoever is best in handling kids, they’re handling them. Till they are 10, 12, they don’t even know who their biological parents are, because they are just brought up by a few women who are good with the children. Many, many mothers and fathers may not be good with the children, but there is always an aunt who is good with children, so she brings up all the children and it’s one rollicking situation.
These things were possible just two generations ago. In the last generation, they dropped all those people, aunts and uncles and everybody, we dropped, we said family means myself, my husband or wife or/and my parents, even the wife’s parents are not really family (usually, unfortunately). So, from there, this generation has come, me and my wife, or me and my husband, is the only family. Parents are also not family, they cannot be with us, we can’t stand them, and we’re wondering if the children are our family or not, because we even don’t want them around anymore.
I’m saying our sense of individuality is growing in a way that even, that I know a couple who have taken homes in the neighborhood, who have their distant homes, but in the same home they cannot exist, it’ll lead to divorce, so they live in two separate homes, close by, and through the window they wave at each other, once in a way they mate, either you visit him or he visits you, something like that. And I’m saying they’re coming to this place, they’re becoming so individualistic, we simply cannot get along with anybody, that’s where we are going.
So, is this a good trend? No. Because after some time you cannot even get along with yourself. The number of suicides in 2020, for various reasons, but in one way or the other, when it happens in poorer nations, it may be due to economic reasons, another kinds of problems in war zones, in famine zones, people may take their life because they see their physical condition is hopeless, they can’t do anything about it. But it is in well-to-do societies like the US, Japan, Europe, all these places, this is essentially because you’re not even able to get along with yourself, your own mind is such a big problem, your own emotions are such a big problem, and this is happening. So, we need to understand, this progression will lead to, not a healthy society.
So, like here, when you say in a yoga center “We are over five thousand people, living together, here”, in the Unites States we are building a spiritual community, not away from the world, as a part of the world, it’s very important you don’t make your community exclusive and something you think is superior to the rest of the world. This will always bring it down. This is a mistake many communities have made. So, we make sure our communities are very engaged with the outside world, very inclusive with the outside world. So, we have over 20,000 acres in the United States, in Tennessee. We are building a spiritual community where people, individual people, families, businesses, can come and establish themselves there and be a part of a community which believes in human well-being. Human well-being starts with you, eating right, living right, breathing right, sitting right, standing right, doing the right kind of thoughts or doing the right kind of emotions. If you do this, a new possibility opens up, which is not something that we can articulate, but a new possibility, beyond all these things, will open up, physiologically and psychologically. We are equipped in a certain way, compared to any other creature on this planet, but unfortunately, this capability, our ability to intellectualize, our ability to imagine things that may happen tomorrow, our ability to have a vivid sense of memory, all these things human beings are suffering. People are thinking they’re suffering life, they’re not suffering life, they’re suffering their vivid sense of memory and a fantastic sense of imagination. That is why you can suffer what happened 10 years ago, or you can even suffer what may happen the day after tomorrow, already. So, this is not suffering of life, this is suffering human faculties which have happened to us after millions of years of research and development. You can call this evolution, but essentially, it’s research and development from a single celled amoeba, to who you are right now, just see how much development, how much sophistication has happened, and unfortunately, we are suffering that. So, it’s very, very important that people coming together and either – see, whichever way, I’m not saying this is a best way, we say “Yogaratoa-bogaratoa”, but it means “Either this way or that way”, in pleasure or in discipline, in aloneness or in togetherness, somehow, bring that sense of equilibrium within yourself, so that the dimensions which are beyond your physiological and psychological spheres becomes available to you. Your body and your mind should become a platform upon which you stand and touch the sky. Right now, it’s a moras, it’s like a sinking sand, you know. People are sinking into their own minds and bodies, they’re bodies and their minds are keeping them busy for an entire lifetime. This is not the way you are supposed to be. This is a platform upon which you should stand and do something more significant.

[30:35] Sahara
Thank you for sharing all of that. And you’re so right, I feel there’s a higher level of expectation and also agitation in our society that the reason why so many can’t really get along with anyone, whether it’s family members or even friends, is because I feel, we’re so used to having whatever we want, when we want it, and then also prioritizing our career over connection. So, it does take that rewiring and that reprogramming of “What do we really want in this lifetime? Do we want to be successful and alone, where everything, and the temperature, is exactly what we want, or do we want the joy of being in community?”

[31:11] Sadhguru
Temperature will be exactly the way you want when you are in the undertaker’s place, they will keep the temperature minus something and it’ll be right there. When you’re alive, you must brave every kind of temperature.

[31:28] Sahara
And I think it’s that’s illusion of control that we have, “If I’m alone, I can control everything.” So, for people who are struggling with that, what advice do you have?

[31:37] Sadhguru
We need to understand, see, you and me are talking here because of technology. Where are you Sahara?

[31:43] Sahara
Miami.

[31:44] Sadhguru
Miami, okay. Look at you. in Florida, I’m in southern India, you’re near the ocean and I have a mountain blocking my ocean view. I’m also close to the ocean, but I have a huge mountain between me and the ocean.
Anyway, look at this, across probably, I don’t know, maybe 12,000km, we are talking to each other because of technology, all this is fine, but the essential aspect of who we are is just this – human beings. When it comes to human experience, we want our experience to be as profound as possible. Somebody thinks it will become profound if they have a lot of money and access to many things in the world, their life will become profound. Somebody thinks it will happen out of a love affair or a deep sense of love or relationship. Somebody else thinks it’ll happen because of knowledge. Somebody thinks it’ll happen when they hit the bottle. Somebody thinks it’ll happen by popping some pills. Every one of them, one who is going to the temple, one who is going to the bar, both of them are seeking profoundness of experience, isn’t it? This is all we’re seeking – profoundness of experience.
When it comes to activity, impactfulness of activity is important. When you do something, you want it to impact people, otherwise what is the point of impactivity? These are the only two things we’re genuinely seeking – profoundness of experience; impactfulness of activity.
Right now, our problem is, we are trying to make activity impactful without profoundness of experience, because of this, activity is overly stressful. It is like you have raised a bar for your activity, but you have not elevated yourself. It is like you’re on a race track with an old beat-up pick-up truck, but you’re on a Formula 1 track – obviously four wheels will go in four different directions. If you want to be in a Formula 1 track, you need to have that kind of a machine.
So, the most important thing is to eliminate this constantly, the life that you are, not just becoming physically fit or mentally capable, the life that you are can be upgraded. If you are always upgrading the life that you are, activity will naturally upgrade itself. Instead of activity being a consequence of who we are, we are making activity the basis of who we are. This is the fundamental mistake. First being, then doing, then having.
But today in the world, even a 12-year-old, a 15-year-old, is dreaming what are the things they want to have, because of that, they do, and because of doing that they become. This is the fundamental upside-down way of handling life, which is causing so much distress and pain for human beings, actually when life is better organized than ever before.
Never before in the history of humanity, our survival is so well organized. I’m especially saying this as a woman, just look back and see, 500 years ago, if you were a woman, what are your difficulties? From simple, personal difficulties, to every kind; just imagine all the things. Today, where you’re placed. This is true for a man and a woman, but I feel it’s far more starkly real for a woman. Still many things have to change, that’s a different thing, but as a generation of people, we are enjoying the highest level of comforts and conveniences, but we are at a high level of distress, simply because we do not know how to handle our own faculties. And the technologies that we create, which are a tremendous empowerment, even they trouble us.

[35:35] Sahara
Absolutely! And I’d love to ask you about the technologies because it feels like, right now, there’s a crew of people who are seeking more merging with technology. So, wanting to move towards, for example, Tesla recently released these robotic dogs that can on a street and almost act like policemen, and I think there’s a natural expansion of technology that happens with expansion of consciousness, we can’t prevent ourselves. But there’s another crew of people who are wanting to go off grid and disconnect and go back to the natural ways.
So, what is your take on how we can integrate with technology, which is the way that the mainstream world is heading, without giving up levels of our freedom and consciousness to it?

[36:18] Sadhguru
So, the problem is, people are always looking at extremes. One wants to become a robot, by themselves, they want to become robotic. Somebody else wants to reject everything and have a harmonious life. These are two extremes.
These two things that are happening, either by being overly attracted to something or rejecting something completely. Has technology made our lives, physical life? The experience of our life cannot become better because of technology, but the physical comfort and our ability to function in the world, has it empowered us? Definitely, in a phenomenal way. On an unimaginable way it is one. See, you’re in Miami, I’m here in southern India, we’re even talking. If we did this 100 years ago, you know what people would call us? Maybe I’m God and you’re my angel or something.

[37:15] Sahara
Yes, we’d be telepathic.

[37:18] Sadhguru
Much more than that, if we can see each other and talk to each other, that’d be the end of it.

[37:23] Sahara
We’d be burned at the stake.

[37:25] Sadhguru
We just got this technology a little late. See, suppose you and me had this technology 100 years before anyone else, or you could’ve claimed you’re God and people would’ve believed you. I’m saying that is the level of empowerment we have, so let’s not grip about it, nor should we exaggerate this thinking that technology is going to fix everything.
Technology is not going to fix everything, technology is going to empower us in such a way that many, many things that we were doing with much hardship, we can do it easy, we can do it so easy, that today, anything you want is at our fingertips, this is fantastic. So, when everything that you want happens by the machine – you know, today, there is artificial intelligence and people are inviting me to these artificial intelligence conferences, I asked them “Why are you guys inviting me to these conferences? I’m not an artificial intelligence, I’m as natural as it can be”, they said “No, no, the thing is…”, these are all academics talking to me and saying “If this artificial intelligence is taking over, what will we do? We won’t have jobs”, that’s what they are saying, I said “No problem for me, if artificial intelligence takes over, I will have too many things to do” because it’s a great thing if machines can do all the physical work, isn’t it fantastic?
Right now, all the physical work, suppose you had to take a crowbar and a spade and dig, how much time it’ll take? Today, machine is doing it, isn’t everybody happy? I’m sure at that time the laborers start, what will I do? My job will go because of this machine.
Now people are doing mental work and having the same insecurity. If all the mental and intellectual work – a professor reads ten books and assimilates and tells his students; now, a computer can read a million books and tell the students something far more enriching, so they’re afraid our jobs will go. I’m so glad that these jobs will go because for too long, idiots who can read a book have been acting they’re the agents of God. If they can read one book – see, it’s like this, if you read 100 books, you become a scholar; if you read 10 books, you become a school teacher; if you read one book, you become the agent of God. You become God’s representative on the planet.
So, this has been going on for too long. Now, your phone can repeat all the scriptures on the planet, effortlessly. It’s really good, if all the physical and psychological work that you’re doing, intellectual work that you’re doing, are done by the machines, I think there is enormous room for human beings to focus on consciousness. The problem all this, millenuims, are human existence has been, even if you want to sit and meditate, when can you do it? Every day in the morning you have to go to the river and fetch water and chop wood and do this and do that, by the time you’re done, you’re half dead. Today, you can wake up and press a few buttons and everything happens, now you can do whatever you wish to do with yourself.
I think this is a fantastic time and better time could come now, in the next few years, if only, if we manage a few things as well, that we don’t let these things go out of hand and we don’t let very convoluted minds use technology to destroy us in so many different ways because technology doesn’t have a mind of its own, it can do anything. You can direct it whichever way you want, technology can become a war machine, technology can become a lifesaving process. So, I only hope that the right kind of people handle the technology.
And also, the important thing is that we should not misunderstand technology, just because it does things that you do.
See, for example, you want to load a ship – I was recently in a port, I was just saying, I remember in India, in the 60s, when men were loading the ships, they would take 24-28 days to load one ship with cargo. Today it is done in some 12-13 hours, large ships, the ships are ten times bigger than what they were at that time, but still, loading and unloading happens anywhere between 10-18 hours because the machines are doing it, aren’t we glad?
So, similarly, if our intellectual struggles and intellectual labor is done by machines; it’s even better; this means a human being is free. When a human being is free, if the necessary guidance is there, consciousness will rise. Otherwise, human beings will go into states of intoxication and all kinds of devious ways, of somehow, to beat their boredom, and above all, to avoid themselves.
So, the drugs and alcohol are rising in their usage all over the world, simply because there is less and less work to do, machines are doing the work, so many things are happening. It’s very important when human hands are free, consciousness should be really up – then it’s a fantastic world; absolutely dream world. When our hands are free, we have nothing to do, but our consciousness is risen, we will do something which is not physical in nature, which is significant to the entire cosmos.

[43:04] Sahara
I love that! And what I’m really hearing is, it just depends on our level of consciousness. We could just take technology taking over and use it to numb out or we can take that extra space to develop and to continue to solve the world’s problems that technology cannot solve, like spreading love and compassion.
Do you feel we’ll get to this place that there is a set universal income and people don’t have to work and can completely devote themselves to creativity, spirituality etc.?

[43:33] Sadhguru
Well, that is a utopian idea, but it could happen. So, will we be meditative, will we be full of love and joy and blissfulness or will we be drugged out is a choice that we have.

[43:48] Sahara
The red pill or the blue pill?

[43:50] Sadhguru
Yeah. Will we culture this generation in the right direction? That is what’s important.
As a part of this, we are launching what is called a conscious planet. You, Rose, you must be a part of this, conscious planet.

[44:03] Sahara
Absolutely! I would love to be.

[44:06] Sadhguru
Thank you very much!

[44:08] Sahara
Thank you so much for sharing this space and your wisdom with us today, we’re so grateful.

[44:11] Sadhguru
If you can bloom in a desert, what is the problem?

[44:16] Sahara
Exactly!

[44:17] Sadhguru
Everywhere, it’s fine. Thank you! Wonderful!

[44:20] Sahara
Thank you so much!

[44:21] End of Inteview
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[44:22] Sahara
Wow! I am buzzing after that conversation! I hope you are too! And for me, the biggest takeaway is that our level of consciousness will dictate our future outcome, both for ourselves and for the collective.

[44:34] Sahara
So, it’s not about is technology good or bad; can we live in community; can we help the environment. It really comes down to what level of consciousness we are operating at. If we raise our collective consciousness, we can have the technology and the community and all of these things, and use it for all of our highest goods. However, if we’re operating from a low level of consciousness, all of these things can truly be used against us.

[45:00] Sahara
So, such a great reminder of my personal mission to help raise the vibration of the planet and I know, probably, yours too, and for each of us to tune into it in our own unique way in relation with our soul’s purpose, our dharma, so we can experience this heaven on earth, not wait for it in the afterlife but actually create it now as a state of consciousness.

[45:21] Sahara
So, thank you so much for listening. Please share this Episode on your Instagram stories; share with me what your biggest takeaways are, I’m so excited to see them and I’m so grateful to have you in this experience with me.

[45:33] Sahara
Be sure to subscribe to the Podcast for more, I have so many incredible spiritual teachers coming up, and of course, hundreds of profound Episodes that have happened in the past, and I’m so grateful to have you here as part of the soul journey with me.

Thank you so much for tuning in. Namaste!

Episode 398: Creating a More Joyful World with Sadhguru
By Sahara Rose