Highest Self Podcast 334: Instagram Growth Strategies with Bossbabe’s Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty

Social media is still the best way to get your voice out there and share your dharma with the world, whether you’re a Visionary, Teacher, Artist, Entertainer, Entrepreneur or any other Dharma Archetype. In this episode I sit down with BossBabe co-founders Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty to talk ALL things Instagram growth, from algorithm news to Reels to engagement to turning audience members into clients and customers. This is a super valuable and jam-packed conversation for both social media mavens and newbies so take some notes!

We’ve teamed up to offer $100 off IGA (Instagram Growth Accelerator) to Highest Self Podcast listeners, which you can get exclusively at bossbabe.com/sahara with coupon code SAHARA100.

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Join Rose Gold Goddesses, the sacred sisterhood collective all about embodying the Goddess within at www.RoseGoldGoddesses.com

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Intro + Outro Music: Silent Ganges by Maneesh de Moor

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TRANSCRIPTION

Episode 334: Instagram Growth Strategies with Bossbabe’s Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty
By Sahara Rose

[00:12]
Namaste. It’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you, Your Soul’s Highest Evolvement.

[00:19]
If it’s your first time listening – Welcome! I’m so excited to have you here!
I’m on a sacred mission to help people remember their Dharmas, their Soul’s Purposes, the big reason why they are here. And leading up to my new book “Discover Your Dharma” out January 5th , I am interviewing people all about their Dharmas, different pathways to get there and ways to support you to really taking your message, your vision, your ‘why’ out there to the world to be experienced.

[00:48]
And social media has been a huge part of my career. I wouldn’t be here sharing with you via a social platform (which is even podcasting) if it weren’t for the invention of these tools and these methodologies for us to freely spread information.
So, as annoying as social media could be, sometimes as addictive as it can be, as much as it can feel as a time-sucker, trust me, I have felt like all of those things as well, it also gives us the freedom to share our voice and to be heard, and to make a difference in the world.
And back in the day, there were six TV channels and there were publicists and all of these things that you had to cross and be and represent to even be on them, and they wouldn’t let you talk too outside of the lines or say something to paradigm shifting because they wanted to control the narrative and even these six channels were owned by one to two people. And now, because of social media, each of us is our own Oprah, each of us is our own Dr. Phil Murray, or whatever you were watching when you were a kid, but a high-vibe version of that because we don’t have to be “You are not the father” to get those views, we can talk about what it is that sets our souls on fire, what makes us feel alive, what we want to share with the world. And the beauty of that is that now you don’t have to be chosen by anyone, you don’t have to fit the media narrative to be given a microphone, you can just go buy your own microphone and start talking. That’s what I did on this Podcast and that’s what so many, hundreds of thousands of people are doing all around the world. However, growing on social media, learning social media, it is a never-ending journey and I am still very much learning despite being on social media since it was created, blogging for almost 11 years now (which is so crazy to think that Eat Feel Fresh is over a decade old) and going through so many shifts. There was no Instagram, then Instagram was created and that kind of became your new blog, and from Instagram becoming your blog, it shifted to stories, and now there are reels and TikTok came in, and that’s what made the reels, and people are doing the audio, and now they’re doing the video. It can definitely feel overwhelming to try to understand how the algorithm works, what kind of content to post, how to get things to go viral, how to turn those people into your customers, however, it is a journey worth taking if you are someone that has a message to share because it is providing us with the best opportunity in human history to get our voices out there.

[03:28]
And for so many of us – I have these Nine Dharma Archetypes, these Nine Archetypes related to your Soul’s Purpose which I outline in my book “Discover Your Dharma” but if you are someone who is a Visionary – so the Visionary is someone that has a message, someone that is here to bridge the new paradigm, here to speak about the ways that things could be, so, raising consciousness.

[03:49]
So, I am very much of the Visionary Archetype; many guests on this Podcast have been Visionaries or Teacher (which is my secondary Archetype) – if you have something that you want to teach, whether it is knitting, or entrepreneurship, or gardening, or yoga, or anything else. If you are an Artist and you want to get your voice out there, or you want to get your paintings, or your song out there; If you are an Entertainer and you want to share your comedy or your POVs which are styles of improv that are really trending now on TikTok that people perform – essentially these 10-15 second long clips and create a whole series based on them (and they’re pretty entertaining actually).
So, all of these different Archetypes can use social media to further spread your voice out there and I think what happens is a lot of people feel like “Well, I’m too late. I should have done it right when Instagram started, now I’m too late so I’m never going to be able to figure this out so I might as well not try!” But every day that you’re not trying is another day that you’re going to feel further behind. And I have always known that every time I have felt like I’m already too late or falling behind, I know deep in my soul I’m going to do it eventually, but it’s just a matter of how long is it going to take me to talk myself into it.

[04:48]
Even with starting this Podcast, I remember thinking “Oh, who am I to start a podcast? Someone else already has a podcast or kind of talking about spirituality, there’s no space for me to do it, I’m too far behind” and this was three and a half years ago. Imagine if I had listened to that and over 300 Episodes would not be out. So, no matter if you’re on social media, you’re already doing the thing and you love to learn new tips or you’re very new, this Episode is going to have so much for you and I always, always, always, on Highest Self Podcast bring people who really embody their message; people who are not only the best in their field, but walk their talk. And, I bring, always, my own friends – you guys are here in my inner circle on here. And Natalie Ellis and Danielle Canty of Bossbabe are two of those people.

[05:46]
I met these girls in LA. I met Natalie, I want to say three years ago or something, she actually – when I first met here she was “I took your Ayurveda course” which is so cute and we became friends, and we’re both Capricorns and started to share business stuff, and then her business partner Danielle moved over from the UK, and it has been so awesome just learning from these girls, just hanging out with them. And they were visiting down in Florida so they came over so we decided to hop on a Podcast and share more about everything social media related from marketing to how to understand what’s trending right now and the algorithm, and how to turn, also, those audience members into clients or customers because really it’s all the point of it, it’s not all about having a lot of followers and the number, it’s about actually changing more lives. And whether you’re doing that through working with people one-on-one or through online programs, or you have a product, it’s really important to also know how to take that conversation off social media too. So, we talk about all of these things. And I’m someone that definitely researches a lot about social media and I came with my best questions of things that I really wanted to learn. I’ve been wandering a lot about just the analytics about the reels and what’s working right now, and different things I’ve seen trending, and I’m someone who literally lives on Instagram. Sometimes I’m like “Oh my Goddess! This is a commitment!” But that’s the commitment it takes to get your message out there so I’m always excited to learn. And Natalie and Danielle had such incredible lessons, incredible tips – these are people who teach Instagram for a living and I’m also super-excited because their IGA, the Instagram Growth Accelerator Program that they have which is the gold standard; it is the most intensive and all-encompassing Instagram course out there. So, they are actually, kindly offering $100 off for Highest Self Podcast listeners which is an offer they don’t have anywhere else. So, I have that link in my show notes, it’s bossbabe.com/sahara and you can use code ‘SAHARA 100’ for $100 off and I’ll share that again in the show notes and at the end of the Episode.

[07:52]
But if you’re not familiar with Bossbabe, they are seriously a one of a kind company. They are helping females get online, make money doing what they do best, whether it is courses or content, or coaching, or whatever else, they really empower women to make it, to be financially independent and to be successful and to do it with fun, and pizazz, and love and heart. So, I love, love, love learning from them and I‘m so excited to share this Episode with you today.

[08:22]
So, without further ado, let’s welcome Natalie and Danielle from Bossbabe to The Highest Self Podcast.
___________________________________________

[08:27] Advertisement:
And before we get started, I’d love to share with you this special offer.

Are you ready to discover your Dharma, your Soul’s Purpose, the big reason why you are here? Well if so, then I invite you to pre-order my new book “Discover Your Dharma” a Vedic Guide to discovering your Purpose.
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This book has everything you need to know for discovering and also embodying your Dharma; how to take action on it; how to find yourself in the Nine Dharma Archetypes and then create a Dharma Blueprint for yourself to put your Dharma into action.
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So, if you’re interested into diving into the book and learning more, check it out, the link is in the Bio. And I also have my Dharma Archetype Quiz that is now available that will help you understand which of the Nine Dharma Archetypes you are. So you can get started and understand yours. I email you tons of great information from the book so you can begin on your Dharma journey as soon as possible.
So head over to iamsahararose.com/dharma, the link is in the show notes and I’m soul excited to share this book with you!

[10:24] End of Advertisement
___________________________________________

[10:25] Interview:

[10:26] Sahara:
Welcome Natalie and Danielle to The Highest Self Podcast, it’s so great to have you guys here.

[10:29] Speaker 1:
Thank you for having us!

[10:31] Speaker 2:
I am so excited!

[10:33] Sahara:
So, the first question I’d love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

[10:38] Natalie:
For me – stillness! It’s everything! And when I tap into stillness or lean more into stillness, I lean more into my highest self and it changes everything.

[10:50] Danielle:
Oh I love that! I think mine is tapping into my heart and really listening to love. Recently, I’ve kind of been on a journey and really just understanding one of my kind of core values and something that I’m real, I’m with, it’s just leading with love, making decisions from a place of love and abundance, I think it’s been really powerful for me.

[11:10] Sahara:
I love it! Well you two are just too powerful manifestors, and what I love about what you guys do is – you just take these huge visions that you have for yourself and launch it into the most massive action. An I think it’s so inspirational especially for so many people who listen to this Podcast who have incredible ideas, they are spiritual, they are heart-centered but they don’t know exactly how it is to take action on their dreams. They might feel guilt or shame or just overwhelm with all of the steps and I feel like you guys are just two powerful Bossbabe leaders who are just like “I’m going to make this shit happen” and go and do it.
So, can just briefly share a little bit about how you created this multiple 7-figure female inspiring business?

[11:55] Natalie:
Yeah. It’s so interesting because we still feel that overwhelm sometimes and we still get paralyzed by the idea of taking action into something where we might not have experience in or it’s scary, or it’s big, it’s lofty. And the biggest thing with anything is just putting one foot in front of the other and I think in the beginning of your business journey it can be really tempting to not start taking action until you’re clear on your vision. We hear this all the time “Let’s get clear on a big vision. Let’s understand where we’re going” but often you don’t understand where you’re going until you take action. And it’s taking action that gives you clarity and helps you – you know, once you take action and you move towards something, opportunities come your way very naturally and you get the chance to say “Yep, that one’s for me! No, that one’s not for me!” And by putting that one foot in front of the other, that really happens. And it’s very similar with – Danielle and I, our journey was – we had this mission and it was “Let’s build the company we wish we knew existed.” So, we were both female entrepreneurs, we were in our own different industries, own silos, we were incredibly lonely and incredibly ambitious. And we were like “What would it look like to solve that problem of loneliness by building a community of women who all are really, unapologetically ambitious and bring in amazing teachers to be able to show us the way because you can only get so far googling your way through business. And that’s really where it started. And it was a lot of getting aligned, putting one foot in front of the other, and the amount of times something just landed in our laps and we were like “Yes! Actually, this sounds like a great idea!” And it wasn’t in the master plan even though it might have looked like it. And I just want everyone to know that that it is okay not to always know the exact place you’re going.

[13:36] Danielle:
I completely agree! And I always think it’s okay to recognize that it’s normal to have self-doubt; it’s normal to have imposter syndrome; it’s normal to feel paralysis at times – that is a normal feeling, but it’s how you overcome that and how you don’t kind of just sit in that and let that paralyze you but recognize “Okay, well, first of all, I’m not going to beat myself up for having this feeling, it is absolutely normal, but what are the tools and what are the resources, who can I go to, to help me support moving through that” because Natalie’s right, you don’t necessarily know every single step that you’re going to take in your journey, the most important thing is you just take that first step, and when you take that first step, it gives you that confidence and it gives you that ability to move forwards and then to understand “Okay, well now I’ve taken this one step, now I can take the second step.” I think people get really, really overwhelmed, and that self-doubt and that imposter syndrome really sets in when they feel like they need to do every single step ahead of them. So, you’ve got 10 steps ahead of you and you need to know exactly where you’re putting each foot, and you just don’t. And I think that’s a really important thing that Natalie and I’ve really learned to let go of.

[14:38] Sahara:
I love that so much. And I think that often times people want that full game plan, we want the whole business plan, we want to know the step-by-step and the way that our school system has taught us too, it’s like “Know all of the steps, make sure you’re clear and then take action.” So, we’re kind of trained to behave this way and it’s just not what works in real life and it’s definitely not what works in entrepreneurship because by the time you even try to figure it out it’s probably going to have changed by then too. Especially with the online space, it’s moving so fast, so it’s really just, yeah, taking action, messy action, figuring it out. And I think where a lot of people feel overwhelmed and stuck is feeling like “I might be too late. I missed the Instagram train. I’ve missed the podcast train. I’m too late, I’m too late!” So, what would you say to someone who may be – they have a small Instagram, they haven’t really gone full blast or they haven’t really launched a podcast? Is it too late now? How should they start taking action towards that?

[15:28] Danielle:
So, I love this question! And for anyone listening, every day that you take, you’re making yourself later and later, so that’s one big reminder. And let’s talk about the beginning of Instagram because – yes, it was a lot easier to grow an account when Instagram started, I want to be completely transparent about that. And a lot of people that started their accounts very early on, their audience isn’t so engaged anymore. It doesn’t mean that just because you started 10 years ago your audience have grown with you and stuck with you, what often happens is your audience has gotten stagnant because you’ve changed, what you’re about has changed, they’ve changed. And so, some people that started 10 years ago, they’re thriving, and some people aren’t necessarily. So, there’s pros and cons to both. Right now, I think is a better time than ever to be getting your business on Instagram; to be launching a podcast because you’ve got a tried and tested blueprint that already exists. You know what to do, you know that your audience are there. You know, a few years ago not everyone was on Instagram, not the audience you were trying to attract was there whereas now you know that they’re there, and now, more than ever, it’s really easy to get clear on who you’re attracting, what you’re putting out in the world and then finding an audience to build from that. I really don’t think it’s too late and I don’t think Instagram or social media for that matter is going anywhere and it’s that idea of “I’m too late” that’s going to make you late.
With podcasting – I mean if you look at the listenership of podcasting compared to the uses of Facebook, it is still so small, that’s going to catch up and so if you get in now and you’re consistent and you hit that wave, you’re going to be looking back in a few years’ time like “Yeah, I’m so glad I got in there. I got in there early” because it’s only going to continue to grow.

[17:08] Natalie:
Yeah, I think it’s challenging – that mindset. A lot of us, a lot of people can operate in a scarcity mindset like “Oh, I’m too late. Too many people are on. Too many people are selling this, too many of that.” But it’s really understanding actually how to switch that mindset into abundance and thinking “Okay, there is room for me!” Hey, do you know what – this platform is thriving. If we think about when we first started on social media – remember MySpace, Bebel or something – the thing with Instagram and podcasts is you know they’re here to stay and I think that’s really powerful and a comfort in that. Also, just like Natalie said, looking at what the blueprints are – who do you admire and who do you want to take inspiration from? I’m not saying copy but take inspiration from, to look at those blueprints, to understand what works and to make it work for you. And I think when you change that mindset around going “Okay, right, now I’m here!” If you think about business and you look at these big companies, they’ll always wait for little companies to pave the way into a market; into a new market. And so, really just kind of looking at “Well, actually this works for the type of thing I want to do or the type of thing I want to speak about, or the type of thing I want see” and when you really change that mindset vs. scarcity and go “Okay, well this is obviously working, let me lean into this and let me be the best person to bring my touch and my spin” then I think that’s when it’s really powerful.

[18:29] Natalie:
Yeah and also, whichever social media you get on, whichever platform you kick off, whether it’s a YouTube Channel, a podcast, your Instagram, what’s really important to remember is you don’t own any of these platforms and you don’t own the audience on the platform. So, whilst we are massive advocates of social media, obviously our entire business is being built off of Instagram, we’re also advocates of owning your real estate. So that means if you are starting to put yourself out there, think about what you’re building behind that. Is it an email list or is it a text messaging list? How are you really securing yourself against the idea that the algorithm that might change one day (which it might) or Instagram goes dark for a couple of days (which has happened). And if you’re solely relying on social media for business and for sales, I think that’s where it gets a little bit scary. So, for anyone listening who hasn’t maybe started an email list, that’s where I’d really recommend starting, then using everything else to power the email list (or a text messaging list) so that you’ve got that direct line to your ideal clients and you own that real estate.

[19:30] Sahara:
Okay, so I want to ask you – email or text message – what should be focusing on building right now?

[19:36] Natalie:
So, I’m a big fan of email because I think that story-telling a business is really, really important. And I think right now, the text messaging Apps are still a little bit behind when it comes to that, you can’t really send anything that’s sufficiently valuable, you can’t send long form, you can’t send too long videos, however, I do think that’s going to change and I think when that changes, if you have numbers, I think you’ll be in a really powerful position. I don’t think email’s dead and I don’t think email’s going to die for a really long time. And there’s power in owing emails, it’s not necessarily just having an email list, but if you have someone’s email, you can pull that up into Facebook and you can show up in the Feed using ads. That gets a little more complicated but there’s a lot more to it than just an email list, but I don’t think email’s going anywhere. So, I would genuinely, for anyone starting off, I would say collect emails because you can build that story-telling relationship with your audience and optionally, take their number. So you can put it as an optional box; they can put their number in or they don’t, but starting to build that up, even if you don’t action it, I think in a couple of years’ time you’ll be glad you did that.

[20:39] Danielle:
Yeah, I think right now, text messages are best uses like a little nudge now and again, it can be very intrusive so just…

[20:46] Sahara:
I end up just unsubscribing to them all. But it is 90% open rate.

[20:52] Danielle:
Yeah, exactly. So, I think there’s a touch for a big important things and there’s accents and to draw attention to something specific is really, really useful. But I agree with Natalie, the long form and the rapport that you can build and depending on what you want to be speaking about and the message that you want to get over, email is so powerful because you can really tell your story in the email which you just can’t do in a text message right now.

[21:13] Sahara:
Absolutely. So, I want to talk about Instagram and what is working because I know so many people are like “This algorithm, it screwed me over, it’s not working, it’s not showing my post. I’ve been shadow-banned” and then you hear all these rumors about algorithm etc. So, right now, in your perspective, what is working?

[21:30] Natalie:
Right now reels are working so incredibly well and then when Instagram or Facebook releases any new feature – so let’s say reels, there’s probably only a team of ten people at Facebook working on reels (even though it’s this massive product). And to be able to get the budget to actually expand their team, they need to be showing product market fit which means they’re going to give a lot more visibility to reels on Instagrams that people will start using it more; they’ll get that attraction and they can build the team. So, what’s really interesting is reels has actually, obviously replaced so many feed posts in the Feed, but it’s also replaced the big square on your X Blow page. So if no one knows where that it, if you kind of click – it’s normally like a magnifying glass, it might be different on people’s accounts, but you click that on your Instagram App and you’ll see the X Blow page which is the videos and photos that are syndicated to you, that the algorithm thinks you’re going to like. Now, there’s a massive square, and that’s been taken over by reels which is massive real estate. So, right now if you aren’t making reels in your business, I really, really recommend starting because you’re going to reach so many more people than a feed post or stories right now. So, that’s the first thing.
Second thing is – I don’t buy into a lot of the shadow-banning.

[22:40] Sahara:
When you say reels, should they be only doing reels? Every post should be a reel now?

[22:45] Natalie:
I don’t think every post should be a reel but I would say every 3 to 4 posts should be a reel. So you want to be using your feed posts for kind of long form value; for building rapport; questions; engagement; aesthetic; things like that. And then if you have lots of time on your hands, you can do more reels, but generally reels are really good every 3 to 4 posts.

[23:06] Sahara:
Can people, like on TikTok, you can search by sound. Can they do that on a reel, search for a trending sound and what’s coming up for you?

[23:12] Natalie:
I don’t know, I don’t think so yet. I know that a lot of people are just kind of exporting from TikTok into Instagram right now, so it’s coming up a lot of original audio.

[23:21] Sahara:
So, what I’ve learned about that – So, I had this reel that got selected by Instagram as the featured reel. I got 3 million views (this reel), it was one of my ‘So not spiritual’ videos that I just saw and I was joking around. And what I learned (because then they called me up, I had a phone call) and they said that if it had the TikTok watermark on there, they wouldn’t have selected it to be one of those featured reels.
So, it’s good to know because a lot of people, including myself, were just uploading straight from TikTok where they don’t want that, they want something that you either did on your camera or did it directly into reels. So, that’s an interesting thing for you TikTokers to know.

[23:56] Natalie:
And did you know it was a big spike in followers from that reel?

[24:00] Sahara:
Honestly, I didn’t. Surprisingly, a lot of them thought I was being serious, they didn’t realize it was a joke because it was all new people, so I feel like I went up maybe one or two thousand people, but for 3 million people reeling something it was interesting because you can’t see the stats on how many people followed you because with the reels. The analytics is not there yet on the reels, so, I don’t know, maybe a lot of people unfollowed me too and then followed me that it kind of balanced it out, I’m not really sure.

[24:28] Natalie:
Yeah, that’s really interesting. I know it’s so annoying not being able to see analytics right now. But it’s all about when you’re putting your content out, that just thinking about the cadents “Okay, I’m going to put a value-based post; I’m going to put a viral post out there so I can build followers; I’m going to put a reel out there.” Because what happens with reels is you’re going to reach so much more of your audience than when you would have before with the feed post, and once you engage that audience, they’re more likely to see your post, generally. So, if your reel engagement goes up, your general engagement goes up. And then just to finish what’s working right now – the same thing that’s always been working. Like I was saying, I don’t buy into shadow-banning. Well, yes, some hashtags are absolutely banned and will black out, and if you use them, your posts won’t be shared. If you’re using bots and spam-me accounts, you’re probably going to down-ranked. However, I really don’t buy into Instagram just shadow-banning accounts, generally, if you’re sharing things that they are against – which is a whole different topic and something I totally don’t agree with, then your engagement will go down if your content is around that, but I don’t think people’s accounts generally are being shadow-banned too much. But what does happen is, if you put out a piece of content that Instagram doesn’t agree with, it will show that piece of content to a really small amount of your audience, and that will then just keep happening over and over and over again, and you get stuck in that loop until you boost that engagement.
So, I always prioritize MSI which means Meaningful Social Interaction – it’s the thing that the Instagram algorithm is built on and it’s about meaningfully, socially interacting with their audience; asking questions; replying; instigating conversations; getting people to vote; getting people to answer; getting people to get curious by your content – that’s the way to bring an account that might be really reintroducing engagement; bring it back; revive it and flag to Instagram “Hey, my audience is actually really engaged and they are interested in my content.”
You know, we have a program called IGA where we have so many people in there and the amount of times I’ve had people come in there with barely any engagement and we’ve revived their account, and it’s really worked, and it does work, and it continues to work.

[26:32] Danielle:
Yeah, I just want to highlight something we’ve already mentioned, it’s about analytics. So, for us, it’s really important whenever we’re doing anything to really analyze something. So, we always talk about ask, listen and learn, so there’s no point just kind of doing things aimlessly and not really taking on that feedback as to what is actually happening; what is actually working and what isn’t. And so, for us, we’re constantly looking at the analytics in there – “Okay, so, if we post this, what was the engagement like? Did people interact with it or not? How many followers did we get from it? What was the reach like?” And we even go “Well, okay, actually, people really resonated with this piece of content” and it feels good for us to put more pieces of content out like this. So, actually, “Do you know what, this piece of content didn’t work – why? Let’s talk about that. Let’s analyze that.” And so I think whenever you’re doing anything that you want to improve in life, you have to reflect on it and you have to look back on it, whether it’s business, whether it’s Instagram, anything, you have to be willing to kind of, you know, listen and learn from what you’ve already put out there. So, I think that’s just a really important point for anyone who wants to be moving the needle forwards.

[27:31] Sahara:
And this has been such a huge lesson for me because I’m someone who’s like “Oh, I want to create this thing” and just kind of do it and put it out there and then have my next idea, and it’s like “Well, actually look at the analytics, look at what’s working.” Something I might like or might not like, it might actually be really resonating with people right now, so to really look at that feedback.
I think where a lot of people get stuck is we see the captions “Type Yes if you agree” and people are like “Oh, who’s going to type yes, is that corny?” What do you think about doing stuff like that?

[28:00] Natalie:
Yeah, I think it can be really corny. I always say to my team “Let’s never ask pointless questions! Let’s ask the questions that we really want to know the answer to or let’s create content where people can tag people and make their day” or they can share it to their feed and say something that they might not feel comfortable saying themselves. You can ask really interesting questions though, so for example “I’m in Miami this weekend, what are you favorite Miami recommendations?” How can you contextualize the ask or “Hey, I’m thinking about putting together this training. If I did, what are the things you’d want me to cover?” or “I’m thinking about putting this training together, is this something you’re even interested in?”

[28:37] Sahara:
Would you put that in a caption or would you put that in a Q&A box and have people send it to you on the DM?

[28:44] Natalie:
So, that’s actually a really good question. I would put into the caption, in certain situations if I really, if I was putting out a post that wasn’t necessarily a viral kind of post that I knew wasn’t going to get massive ‘like’ engagement. I’d probably put a question in there to really get the comment engagement. But in stories I always do a mix of the comment box and DMs because you’ll notice a correlation between your DMs blowing up and the amount of story views you get. And you don’t necessarily see that as much with the Q&A box, so I’d really play with it. I’ll do a Q&A box if I want to know a specific thing like “Hey, I’m in Miami, what are your recommendations?” But I’ll say “Hey, I’m thinking of creating this spreadsheet bundle, are you interested? Let me know” and I know that the response is just a simple yes, and I’ll get them to DM me.

[29:29] Sahara:
So you want them to DM you?

[29:30] Natalie:
Yes! Having people DM you and respond to stories is a really, if not the best, way to get you story engagement up.

[29:38] Sahara:
Good to know because I’m never doing that. So, you guys have so much knowledge on this stuff!
So, I think another place people get stuck is – we’ve seen this kind of meme going around saying “Now that algorithm favors ‘saving the post’ then it’s commenting” can you share what this order is, and is it true, first of all?

[29:55] Natalie:
Yeah, I’ve not seen anyone credible sharing this. What happens on Instagram is it’s such an echo-chamber – one thing gets shared and then it goes beyond. Saving is actually a really powerful tool because what happens on your Instagram account is, you have a ton of lurkers, and it’s actually really funny because probably the lurkers are very likely to buy from you. Those are the kind of people that are sitting on the fence and not the ones to type ‘yes’ to the box that they agree and they might not want to give you their opinion, but they do follow, they do like to see your posts and by them saving it, you continue to show up in their feed and things like that. And, saving tells Instagram that it’s a really good post, it’s a really valuable post. And I’ve experimented with creating check lists and putting before that a couple letters ‘save this post’ and then I’ll expo the check list, those go viral so quickly. So, I think it’s really powerful but I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s really about ranking because at the end of the day a good piece of content is a good piece of content and people are going to engage in different ways. If it’s a post that they want to come back to and reflect on or they want to take inspo from, then they’re more likely to save. If it’s a piece of content that they want to share with someone else or their audience, they might hit the ‘share’ button. If it’s a piece of content that they want to tag people in, so they see it, or they actually want to respond to you and give you some feedback, then they’re going to comment. If it’s a really pretty picture, then they just might like it. And as long as you are getting that engagement then it’s powerful.
So, what generally happens is, you post a post and Instagram will show it to a certain percentage of your audience. If they engage with it meaningfully, giving any of those things, Instagram will show another, bigger percentage of your audience. And that’s how viral kicks in. Then you’ll hit the ‘explore’ page and then it kind of goes from there. And so, any meaningful interaction is going to help with that.

[31:43] Sahara:
So, is it like an order of ‘save’ vs. ‘sent a friend’ vs. ‘comment’ vs. ‘like’ or are these sort of just equal?

[31:52] Natalie:
They’re all pretty equal. We test all the time and there’s no real difference that we see in insights based on whether we tell people to ‘save’ or ‘like’ or ‘comment’ or ‘share’. As long as they’re engaging with it, that’s the thing you really want to aim for.

 

[32:03] Danielle:
The key to any content creation is making sure that you create value. Like what are you actually bringing to somebody’s day; why are they actually reading it; why are they actually engaging in it? And I think that’s something that a lot of people, when they first start creating content, they can do it from a very selfish perspective of like “Okay, what am I getting out of this?” But really, it should be like “What am I giving people from this?” And Natalie just spoke about several pieces – why people might like; why people might comment; why people might save? I think really just understanding and putting yourself in your viewer’s shoes is just really powerful. And we always speak about creating values as the four Es. So, we talk about emotions. So it’s like, okay, you want to be trying to evoke some emotion via the content that you’re creating and if you’re not creating that emotion, maybe you won’t be hitting the education, so you want to be educating them, you want to be teaching them something. At the end of the day they need to be leaving with “Okay, I’ve learned this” or “I’m feeling motivated by this” or “I’m feeling positive by this”. You want them to have a post reaction to the value that you’re bringing, to the content that you’re producing.
The third one is entertainment. So, okay, how you entertain them? Why are they engaging with it? Why are they reading it? Why are they watching that video? What is it about them? What is it about that content that’s hooking them in?
And then the last thing, the fourth E that we work on, which is the one that most people forget is the enemy. So, that’s another one that really engages people. So, it might be like “Okay, we stand for this!”

[33:29] Sahara:
Like unpopular opinion?

[33:31] Danielle:
Yeah! It doesn’t have to be rude; it doesn’t have to be anything like that. For us, as we started growing we stood for being unapologetically ambitious, we really stood that and we made enemies around – we want to make sure we have more women in the board room, we wanted to stand up against the statistics, we made sure that we had this common denominator of winning through that. And so I really think if you can, each time, aim for one of those ‘Es’ then that’s really going to help you get that engagement in those posts.

[34:00] Sahara:
I love that! This is something you guys talk a lot about in IGA which we’ll talk more about.
So, let’s think about – can we think about four pieces of content for people? So, let’s say we have – a lot of people listening and they’re like “Health Coaches, Life Coaches, Spiritual Coaches, or want to be” so what are four content ideas that can come up with using these four ‘Es’?

[34:20] Natalie:
So, well, we teach it in a framework first. So, the three things that we teach is you want to always be posting content that fits into three buckets. It’s either content that helps you grow; content that helps you build your brand; or content that helps you to convert, and the four ‘Es’ really fit into these. So, regardless of which content bucket you choose, you want to really put that in. So, content to build your brand is not content that’s selling, it’s not content that’s going to go viral but it might be something that is telling a personal story of yours, and there’s no call to action at the end, it’s a vulnerability to be vulnerable, it’s telling a story or it’s sharing a bit of your lifestyle behind the scenes, it’s maybe sharing your accreditations, things like that. So, it’s really building you brand; who you are…

[35:04] Sahara:
So, you shouldn’t do a call to action at the end of those?

[35:06] Natalie:
I don’t think you should do a call to action at the end of every story, post or vulnerable post because I think it really conditions your audience to expect that and they feel like…

[35:16] Sahara:
…you’re halfway through the check out?

[35:19] Natalie:
Yeah and they’ll like “Are they being vulnerable to actually tell me a story and tell me about their life or are they doing it because they’re trying to sell me?” And it’s really nice to see someone’s story and see why they’re doing what they’re doing; and where they come from without feeling hard-souled at the end, to just be like “Oh, that’s actually a closed loop on its own. Yeah, I really align with her and her values, or them and their values, what they’re doing” – so that’s one piece.
Content to convert is when you’re directly trying to get the sale. So, it’s maybe that long form post with that call to action at the end; it’s driving people towards a specific call to action, whether it’s downloading a freebie, DM-ing you, working with you, buying your course, it’s very much to sell.

[36:04] Sahara:
Would you put your course like title and price on the caption or you would more do that on an email or something?

[36:11] Natalie:
Both. I would so both and I would test. So, it really depends on kind of the size of your audience and what your goals are. So, I generally – say I’m in a launch, I would prefer to push people to a webinar where we can get on there and we can really deliver value, then we sell the course at the end. Then say, that’s a beginning of a launch and we’ve got a week and a half left, then I would show up on social and do a lot more direct calls to action – but I have a really big audience. And so, what I might do, what Danielle might do, and what another Influencer might do and what you might do is very different to someone who’s starting out might do. If I was starting out, I probably wouldn’t do that. I would structure my captions a little bit differently. I would create a lot more intimacy, I’d get DMs, I’d have conversations on the phone, I’d push people to webinar, I wouldn’t just be saying ‘here’s the program, here’s the price, join now’. And so, that’s also just whenever, for anyone that’s listening, really discern the information that you’re getting because all of us have such different perspectives because we have a following, we have an established business.

[37:12] Sahara:
Any intimacy is actually what a lot of people want right now.

[37:15] Danielle:
I really couldn’t agree more.

[37:16] Sahara:
More than ever, people are wanting one-on-one; people are wanting someone to listen. So, I think a lot of people are like “Oh, I wish I could just have this evergreen course so I could just live the 4-hour work week”. And that’s not what a lot of people need right now.

[37:29] Natalie:
I agree.
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[38:42] Natalie:
And then the third bit when you’re talking about content to grow, that’s your viral post. That’s content that’s going to get shared; going to get commented on; and it’s actually going to bring in followers.
So, when we talk about the four pieces of content that someone could share – let’s say one of them is a personal story and you could share a picture of yourself from five years ago and talk about where you’re at and really evoke that emotional piece.

[39:05] Sahara:
I love the before and afters, every time I see them…

[39:08] Natalie:
It works, yeah! It really works and it all goes back to that intimacy piece. People feel like they have that connection with you. They want to know that you’ve been where they are, you didn’t just come out of womb a boss and have all this honey tea. They want see that journey and hear about it.

[39:23] Sahara:
Even just – I always love seeing when people are like “Hey, I’m reintroducing myself” even someone I’ve been following for years because you forget or you’d like to hear what are people up to etc. but I think we – I know for myself, I’m like “Oh, my audience knows me and they listen to all my Podcasts, they know everything about me” – that’s not true. Half of them probably have never even heard my Podcast before so I’m assuming they already must know everything about me. How often would you say we should reintroduce ourselves to our audience?

[39:48] Natalie:
If you’re in a growth phase, once a month – give your growing a lot. If you’re growing slower, I would say once every three months – and it could be a reintroduction, it could be ‘ten facts about me’, you can really just make it fun, but I agree.

[40:01] Danielle:
I think another thing that’s just really important about that is – we’re speaking about values and what you’re bringing, but it’s being consistent in your messaging. So, it’s really not as so like you’re introducing yourself. People kind of want to expect a certain story from you or a piece of content from you, or if I was, all of a sudden, one day, start talking about “Oh yeah”, all of a sudden I’m speaking about music and I never ever spoken about music before and I’ll be like “Oh, they might be getting to know me a bit more” that might be out of the blue. And I think just really, kind of, if you’re growing and you’re trying to build a rapport being consistent around your pillars and what you show up as and talk about is really, really powerful to grow and engage and create that intimacy. And so, I think it’s important we understand that.
And the other point that I wanted to make around that intimacy. For me, I was never on social media all that much, it was never something that I was like “Oh my goodness, I love posting on social media” (outside of Bossbabe), but my personal account, it was never something I really prioritized or let into. And I think, for a lot of people, you do get into that paralysis piece of “I don’t know what to say” like “Who cares?!”, “Are they going to be interested in anything that I have?”
And so for me, it’s just really kind of understanding that you should speak on social media in way that you would speak to normal people. Natalie mentioned it earlier, don’t just say ‘drop a yes below’ – who says that in real life? You don’t!

[41:18] Sahara:
‘Yes’ if you agree “I like the Sun”

[41:22] Danielle:
I was laughing – I was packing to come here to Miami and I was “This is so funny, I’m such a last minute packer” I literally, the night before, that’s me! I said “I wonder how many people more pack early and pack late?” So I just asked on Instagram and the amount of conversations that have blossomed from that because it’s an actual question that I would ask you if I were sat next to you Sahara. And I think that’s what a lot of people lose touch with, they sometimes think that ‘yes’ is different but it’s not too far definitely, you do need to be a normal person who can have normal communication on social media.

[41:56] Sahara:
One hundred percent! I’ve noticed that when my stories are just “I’m moving in” and “Here”, those are my highest stories than when it’s the perfect graphics we spend all this time to make and they’re so curated and it’s about whatever – those don’t do well at all because people are just noticing “Oh, that feels too polished for me” or “We want real”.

[42:16] Danielle:
Yeah less is all.

[42:18] Natalie:
So, a post that you might put up to hit the education – so what I mentioned before around emotion, that was really building your brand, you’re telling a story, there’s no call to action, you’re really building that emotion in your audience, you’re really building a brand.
Education, I would probably pair, with either building your brand or with converting. So, it can really play into both. So, an education, a post that really sparks education could be a more professional picture of you while you’re talking about something that solves a problem for someone else, or it’s a photo that your audience can see themselves in. So, let’s say you’re a Health Coach, it might be you doing your morning routine and then you explain what your morning routine looks like in the comments or if you’re camera shy, you could – I did a post lately, which did really well, and it was a morning routine creating test and I put 8 different things and I said “Save this post and pick 3 things every morning to create a morning routine” and then I put a logo form caption in there, just really talking about what people could do and that posted so well because people were getting really educated. So, I could just do that to build my brand or I could put up a call to action and say “Hey, if you’re interested in working with me closer on figuring out how to build a more high-performing lifestyle or get more energy in” or whatever it is, then I would push them with my DMs or call to action in Bio or things like that.

[43:33] Sahara:
Love that! That’s so good because we’re all looking for more inspiration on this kind of stuff. And I think we’re always so curious. I always love Natalie, when you’re sharing all of your routine, you’re Bio-hacking and your check lists. People are so curious because you only see how you live and your lifestyle and I feel like these random, quirky, lifestyle things is such a great way for people to understand who you are but then also relating it to your work, if you’re a Health Coach, Business Coach, you’re Bio-hacking to optimize your brain and someone else could be doing it to balance their client’s hormones etc. but just showing how you’re implementing that practice in your life.

[44:07] Natalie:
Yeah, that’s so true, and just leading from those others like entertainment, just giving some ideas. Again, when you talk about reintroducing yourself, I did a post the other day and I was like “The ten things we don’t know about me” and I wasn’t teaching anything, I wasn’t eliciting an emotion.

[44:22] Sahara:
I would immediately click on that, I would want to know.

[44:24] Natalie:
It was funny (I thought it was funny anyway) and they just really understand. Especially right now, things can be very heavy during 2020 and people do want some more lighter entertainment. But you also, if you are going to go to the entertainment, really how do you hook them in and it has to be something that you’ve got to get them in with. So I think you just have to be really, really strategic on what those initial captions are and to do that. But I do actually think that entertainment posts can do really, really well right now because, like I say, it’s a little bit different. And then around the outside of that, with the enemy one – for us, we always talk about the coffee that we drink. So we can be like “Okay, we really love this coffee because it’s clean and it’s got no toxins in it” and we’re going to enemize this coffee over here, or just like “Got mold in it and it’s going to give us brain…“ so really understanding.
You know, a lot of people feel like they have to be liked by everybody but it’s actually okay to be polarizing and it’s actually okay to be like “Hey, I stand for this; I stand against this!” And like you say, that doesn’t have to be personal but I do think a lot of people get scared to even say what they don’t like. And actually, when you say what you don’t like and what you’re not for, then there can be a lot of community that can kind of surround that. And so I think it’s really understanding where that sits for you and your personal brand (or business brand) is also really powerful.

[45:46] Sahara:
So true! So you guys have just created kind of a formula (what I’ve noticed) by never put words to, like looking at my most popular posts are the exact things you mention but I’m like “Why?” I did one about the Palo Santo tree and how it might be endangered and this and that, and I’m like “That makes total sense” it sort of was the enemy/education; or my reels, the ones that are funny, they do so well (view-wise) but then what I think what’s hard is sort of not really tied directly into anything that I (a product that I have), so that’s the tricky part.
I feel like a lot of these entertainment, comedians etc. they grow these huge, huge, huge accounts but they are often the ones, they are like “I don’t have any kind of business” and they sometimes end up on that hamster wheel of like “I just need to post viral content” and not having the actual community who would give them the email etc.

[46:35] Natalie:
Yeah and I think that’s such a really good thing. You know, if you want to grow a business off of Instagram from people actually buying from those DM pieces, I think entertainment is the least one that you focus on, you focus on those education pieces and those emotions.

[46:48] Sahara:
Yeah! Entertainment is good, I think, because it helps them see that you’re a human and they’re like “Oh my God, I actually love how she’s able to make fun of herself or she’s able to be like me”, I think it also creates trust because you’re willing to put yourself out there.

[47:01] Danielle:
Exactly! It’s like what Natalie spoke about earlier, it’s the brand builder, it’s not necessarily the call to action, it’s the brand builder. You’re probably going to get some likes or comments from it vs. maybe the ‘saves’, you know.

[47:12] Sahara:
Love that so much! Another thing I’ve noticed too are kind of those carousels, where like I feel like before it would be a lot of times a picture of you and a very long caption. I remember I’d write captions, I was always like “Oh, I need more space” I was always not enough space; now that never really happens but I’m doing a lot of the slides. And what I heard, I don’t know if this is true, that every time that someone slides, that counts as a like. Have you heard this?

[47:35] Danielle:
Yeah, I’ve heard that too. And it’s also powerful because people are just spending more time on your content, which time spend is such a good indicator of good content so it’s really powerful to do slides. And just to build on what you were saying about some people using entertainment and just building accounts – what happens is this framework that I talk about; a lot of content to grow; content to sell; content to build your brand – if you’re just focusing too much on the growth side which is your viral content, whether it’s funny, or quotes or whatever, and everything else is off balance, that’s where you end up building an account where people aren’t really going to buy from you, and so, making sure however you’re doing it – for anyone listening, maybe you’ve got a piece of paper and you can just divide a page into three parts and write those titles ‘Content to Grow’, ‘Content to Build your Brand’, ‘Content to Sell’ and just decide how often you’re going to post. Maybe it’s ‘Content to Sell’ once or twice a week; maybe it’s ‘Growth’ twice a week and maybe it’s ‘Build Your Brand’ three times a week. You can figure out what that looks like but it’s really important to get the right engagement because it’s so easy to lean in to either of that “Oh my God, I’m getting so much engagement in this, I’m going to keep doing it” and then before you know it you show up to sell and no one’s interested. But you have to have this really, kind of a ‘lights on’ approach where if you are really on social media, take it seriously, to sell and to use it to build your business. Then it’s not about just showing up, being funny or being yourself 90% of the time and then selling 10% of the time, because your sell is very obvious. So it’s about selling whenever you’re not even trying to sell, like “Hey guys, this is the kind of tea that I use, here is the brand” or take them through your day; take them through all the different things. So, when I’m organizing my closet I’m always like “Oh, I got these from a container store” so I’m selling all the time without…

[49:19] Sahara:
And you’re using affiliate links for them?

[49:20] Danielle:
Sometimes. Sometimes I use affiliate links, sometimes I don’t, sometimes I just type the brand and say “This is the one that I use” and so it’s really a mix. But people know that I’m authentic about it because I’m just bringing it through in my daily routine, whether it’s affiliate or whether it’s not, and then when I show up to sell it it’s not as in your face like “Oh she’s selling us now, she’s telling us to DM her for the Mastermind or whatever” they’re kind of conditioned to it because I’m always selling; I’m always sharing what’s working for me.

[49:47] Sahara:
I love that because I think a lot of times we’re like “If I’m not paid by a brand, I’m not going to post or tag anything” and then it ends up being the only times that you are selling it’s only for your products. I’m always getting ideas from your Instagram, Natalie, you’re always like “Oh, got this thing or using this acupuncture” and I’m like “Save, save, save” so I’m conditioned to go to your story because you’re like a resource for me.

[50:10] Natalie:
Yeah, exactly, And the thing is, too, it’s great to just be a resource, I’m just to help, and if you’re tagging brands – this has happened to me so many times, when I’m tagging brands that I’m not working with, it’s not sponsored, and then they DM me saying “Oh my God, we just got so many followers or so many sales from that”. It just happened with a match-up company, I was sharing them and they DM-ed me “We’re been inundated to a sales and we want to work with you” and then it comes really organically, it’s just a great way to form a partnership if you want to get into that. Otherwise, they might just decide to send you something for free. And if you really, truly love the product, amazing, I’ll take it for free! And so, whether you’re getting paid or not, it’s just such a good way to build in trust with your audience; I’m only sharing this that I would actually use or truly care about.

[50:53] Sahara:
So true!

[50:54] Danielle:
I think as well what’s coming through for me in this conversation is you know, Instagram and other social media platforms, they can be such a powerful resource, but you also have to accept that there is so much to learn about them, and you can only learn that if you are trying new things; if you have mentors or those people teaching you, because it can be a little bit intimidating and scary to get started, but actually, just like with anything we do in life, we’re always here to learn and have that growth mindset about how can I be better; how can I do more with this? You know, Instagram and social media is just like that.

[51:29] Sahara:
So true! I love our friend group because we’re always giving each other tips etc. and we’re really helping each other grow and I think it’s so important that we’re talking to people, learning from people who’ve done what we want to do before. I think a lot of people have this mindset “Oh, Instagram is just another fad. It’s this other thing that’s here and it’s going to go away tomorrow so I’m not going to put my time into it”. Now we can really see, Facebook hasn’t gone away, it’s just gotten more powerful, if anything, and it acquired Instagram and I’m sure it will acquire more platforms that do become trendy, that’s just how it is. And the fact that you guys have built a multiple 7-figure business, literally from Instagram, just shows that it’s not just an App, it really is – it’s media. And I think; I always think, you know, right now I’m in this process of creating a TV show and all these things but I keep going back, I kind of already do have a TV show every day, it’s called my Instagram Stories. I’m already creating content, going directly to the people, showing whatever it is I want, and seeing it as that opportunity of like we don’t have to wait anymore to get chosen for a magazine or a show or a news article or whatever it is, we get to go directly to our exact people however we want, it’s just learning these little tools so they can actually resonate with people more.

[52:44] Natalie:
Yeah, that’s so true and it’s so powerful. And so many industries are waking up to this as well. Particularly with 2020, like it’s been, when you look at retail stores, they’re always looking at people who have got communities on social media, who have built connection with people, so they can have that influence over what they choose to look at, what they choose to buy and move forwards with.

[52:04] Danielle:
And for anyone listening too, it can be really tempting these days to say “I only have 1000 followers; I only have 5000 followers”. I really just encourage people to think – Wait! If you’re in a room with 1000 people and you are on stage and you are sharing your message, do you not realize the amount of impact you’ll be making? It can be so easy to get caught up in all of the numbers, but really taking a step back and realizing those are 1000 real people following you, seeing your content, engaging with you. That is a lot of people, that’s a big amount of impact! And I’ve seen people build very, very big successful businesses from having a very “small” account, you don’t need massive follower numbers to be building a really big business.

[53:50] Sahara:
So true! I think we get into Instagram like “I just need to get as many followers as possible” but I think it’s going back to ‘what is your goal with this?’ Is it to get as many one-on-one clients as possible; then you might just hit your cap of what you need and then you’re actually good from there. Or is it to – you know, we all have different goals and how we’re using social media, it can shift with time but it’s not like a ‘more followers, more money thing’. I know, we all know, so many people with so many followers who have completely different jobs because they don’t know how to monetize it; and people with less followers who are having huge businesses from it. So it’s really just dependent on your goal.
One question I know a lot of people have is should I make my name my username, my actual name or should it be a brand? Back in the blog day everyone was – I was Eat Feel Fresh – everyone was some sort of blog. Should everyone shift to put their actual name on there?

[54:42] Natalie:
So, it really, really depends on whether you do want to build a brand or whether you want to build a personal brand. So, especially in the beginning, it’s a lot easier to build a personal brand because people buy from people and they always will. If you are building an actual brand and you’re wanting, like a Bossbabe – we obviously use Bossbabe, we are not using our personal names. We did that because we really, intentionally wanted to build a brand and our personal brands took a back seat and we wanted to build something very intentionally, very big, we wanted to build this big community.
If I was starting out from the beginning and I would say, you know, starting my own coaching company or I wanted to sell courses, I wanted to be in that space, I would start a personal brand because people buy from people and people relate to people, people trust people, it takes a lot to get a brand off the ground and it takes a pretty significant marketing strategy. People are less likely to follow a brand on social than they are a person. So, it really depends where you’re at. But if it was me, I’d go personal.

[55:40] Sahara:
Yeah, one hundred percent. Think of all the brands that we’re buying things from – do I follow them all on Instagram? Absolutely not! I’m following people or very specific brands that feel personal.

[55:50] Natalie:
Yeah and you’re probably follow the founder more than the brand (if you love the brand).

[55:54] Sahara:
Exactly! So, I remember how much fear I had when I went from Eat Feel Fresh to ‘iamsahararose’, I was like “People are not going to be able to find me anymore” and I actually had Eat Feel Fresh on the back of my first book, I was like “They’re going to …” but then it’s not that big of a deal, they’re going to find you. I’m so grateful that I did it, I just don’t think I would’ve even stepped into creating this Podcast and sharing more of who I was if I was still hiding behind that brand. I think a lot of times we do it because it makes us feel more safe and comfortable.

[56:22] Danielle:
Isn’t that funny? I’ve come back full circle as well (talking about what you hide behind as well). Hiding behind a brand, we just question what it is you want to come through, and we want holds you back – look at all the steps you’ve taken since then. You didn’t know all those steps were going to come, you just took that first step and the others came after that. Really powerful message in this whole conversation.

[56:42] Sahara:
One hundred percent!

[56:44] Danielle:
And then take action.

[56:45] Sahara:
You’ve got to take action, you’ve got to move forward and make it happen. Especially, we need more high-vibrational content on social media because I feel like so much – When I go on my explore page, it’s all really intense political shit and then you get hooked in and then I’m like “Oh, my God! I just went down fifteen different rabbit holes and my fight or flight is so activated!” So we need just more high-vibe content that makes people feel good and I feel like, especially this year has been wonky and is continuing with the tap work, maybe the next couple years or so we need more of that. So, it’s definitely not taking action.
So you guys have a program called IGA which is this insane; seeing the results that people have. Can you share a little bit more about that?

[57:24] Natalie:
Yeah! So, IGA is our Instagram Growth Accelerator. So, this is our signature program, and Danielle convinced me a couple of years ago to start creating content around this.

[57:34] Danielle:
I was literally, it’s no secret! Natalie is the guru behind our Instagram Bossbabe account. I was like “Natalie, you are an Instagram queen, you need to teach people this” and she was like “No, no, no, come on, let’s go” and I finally convinced her and it’s the most amazing product out there.

 

[57:52] Natalie:
Yeah! I put it off for so long because I knew when I wanted to do it, I was going to go all in. And this is, so, just to preface this, this course is not for someone who isn’t willing to put the work in. It’s a really comprehensive program; it’s the most comprehensive program online for social media growth, and specifically Instagram growth. So, basically, when you hop onto the program you are so fully held and supported, we walk you through really figuring out what your personal brand is or what your brand is; what your offer is; how that connects to your audience; your messaging; your niche; we get you really, really clear on your niche; how to write a Bio; how to continue auditing your Bio as your business grows; how to create content, from how to shoot it, how to filter it, how to edit it, how to upload it and make your Feed look cohesive, all of those pieces. Then we move onto the actual sales element of it. So, half of the course is getting really, really clear on who you are, what you do, who you serve, why you do it and showing you how to put content out there in a really meaningful way. And then the other half of the course is showing you how to convert and build the business.
So, once you’re on there; once you’re growing your account; you’re bringing in those ideal clients – how do you turn this into a business? So, I tell you what it looks like to take someone from a follower and turn them into a client. So, that whole journey, whether you’re having people DM you and you’re keeping it simple or why you are the kind of person who wants to build that funnel, for that work to be gold, you want to build that funnel behind it. I show you how to do that. And then towards the end of the course, so, the goal is, you’ve got your account up and running, you’re posting content, you’re growing consistently, you’re making sales, then I show you how to build longevity. So, how do you build an email list off the back of your Instagram account? I go into all of this because for me it would be out of integrity to say let’s build a follower account and not show you what it looks like to actually build an email list, or a piece of real estate that you own. So we show you how to do that and then we just bring it full circle and show you what it looks like to consistently keep this up – there’s so many things in there.
You know, in the first module I address why you’re not showing up; I address the confidence piece; I address the consistency piece; so it really does set you up for success. It’s very, very comprehensive so it’s something that when you come in, you really want to commit to being able to showing up and doing 1-2 hours a week for the next 3-4 months because it’s not an overnight process. Not many people just decide to get an Instagram and overnight they have 100.000 followers, it is something that you want to commit time to. And if you’re open and able to commit an hour or two a week for the next 3-4 months, it would be an absolute game-changer. The results that we see from IGA are just phenomenal, this program really works!

[1:00:28] Sahara:
That is so amazing! It’s something like, honestly, I spent so much time, wasted so much time in trial and error, and I actually took six months off of Instagram when I was at the beginning because I was like “Nothing I’m posting – no one’s going to like it!” The same thing, I ended up not posting anything until I had a good enough idea to post and then another month and another month went on. And again, we get ourselves into these holes that we doubt ourselves and it’s so important to… I love how you offer all of these frameworks, you can just plug into, like caption ideas, post ideas etc. and then also the importance of creating a business off of it because again, we can all do “Fuck Jerry” and repost other people’s memes and get a bunch of followers, but what does that really mean? So, would this program be good for someone who doesn’t yet have, maybe their business of the ground, maybe they’re just graduating from a school, could they still benefit from this?

[1:01:19] Natalie:
Yeah, it would be really good for two reasons. Firstly, it will actually help you develop your business, if that’s something you’re interested in. It will help you really understand the niche you want to go in and who you want to serve. Or, if you’re not at that stage yet and you’re still figuring things out and you know you’re not a hundred percent ready to take the leap into your business, but you want to build an audience for when you’re ready to go, I think that’s incredibly powerful. And going back quite a few years when I had my ever company I didn’t even have a personal brand on Instagram, I had a supplement company but it took me so long to get the idea off the ground that in the background I was just building an Instagram account. And when I launched my business, twelve months after building this Instagram account, I think I had about 10.000 followers from my Instagram account alone, I was shipping to sixty countries (more than sixty countries), I got stocked in more than 250 stores across the UK and that all came from Instagram. So there’s a lot of power in building something even before you’re ready.
And like we said at the beginning, putting one foot in front of the other and taking action, you’d be surprised what opportunities come your way or what clarity you get around “You know what I like about posting that and I don’t like posting that” or “I want to share that and I don’t want to share that” or “I’m noticing I want to serve that kind of person and not that kind of person”. You generally don’t know unless you try.

[1:02:34] Sahara:
So true! I mean, even besides just a physical product, it helped me get my book deals. So many people DM-ed me every single day “I want to get a book deal, how do I get a publisher?” Honey, today’s day, they want to know how you’re going to be able to sell the book because the publishing industry is not thriving right now, people are buying less books because people are spending more time on social media. So, they want to invest in an author who they know already has an audience that they can sell books to. So, me having the social medial following at the beginning, I don’t know how many I had with my first book, maybe it was like 30.000 or something (it doesn’t need to be 100.000) but they knew I at least had the capacity to build that audience, to get that email list, so there was some trust in me already and then my book leads to also more people sharing it which makes my following grow, then my following book growing and leads to more book sale so it’s sort of like, even if you want to be an author, thought leader, anything else, your Instagram today, it’s your resume. You kind of just can’t not have it.

[1:03:32] Danielle:
It’s a currency in a way. It’s really recognizing that it’s actually a currency in today’s day and age.

[1:03:38] Sahara:
Yeah I know. I keep seeing different things of people saying how in the next couple years it’s going to just be really about how engaged your audience is. That really is the currency of the future because I think, in the next couple years it’s going to be much, much harder to build your personal brand from scratch, so this is really the time, maybe the last couple years that we will be able to do it in the way that we can.

[1:04:00] Natalie:
And that’s what’s really powerful about IGA as well. There are so many courses “Oh, we’ll teach you how to get 10.000 followers; we’ll teach you how to get 20.000 followers”.

[1:04:07] Sahara:
That’s shady stuff!

[1:04:09] Natalie:
Yeah, that’s a vanity metric if you’re not careful. You need to be growing with an audience that you’re building a community around who know, like and trust you so they do go on to buy from you. People are getting smart now; there were so many people that will have 200.000 followers but their engagement is 200 likes on a post. Well, hang on a minute, this is not adding up, where are those followers? They’ve either left you or their bots. And I think you’re right, people do look at this and it’s important to be smart around this and build it in an authentic way because, you know, we spoke about it right from the very beginning when I said one of my values is and how I lean into my highest self is building from love and for me that’s the thing, I just want to show up with the heart. What is it for you that makes you want to show up in this way, why are you doing that? Are you doing it in a positive or authentic way when you do that? I don’t think you go very far wrong adding all the other bits that you can be taught, you know.

[1:05:00] Sahara:
So true! I think it’s like when it turns into a numbers game, you’re not operating from your higher self anymore. Then why are you in business?

[1:05:06] Natalie:
You don’t even care at that point. That’s when you can’t post or you can’t engage because you’re not thinking about actually interacting with people. You’re thinking about the vanity matrix. When you start costing, “Oh, these are people at the end of this, interacting with my post, answering these questions, wanting to get to know me a little bit more” it does make it much easier.

[1:05:24] Sahara:
I think we just overthink things or overthinking things makes us get paralyzed. It’s like we would never have speaking block in a conversation with our best friend, you’re never paralyzed of what to say, but for some reason when it turns into writing a social media caption that happens. So just think of that same friend and maybe at the beginning it takes having some example captions or something to get the ball rolling and then it just becomes your vocabulary that you can just in any situation create the exact post that you need from it.

[1:05:51] Danielle:
Listen, I was that person, I literally was like “Err, I cannot post, what do I even say for my personal account?” And so I just think it is something that you can overcome and you can learn about. And I think that education – when you educate yourself on it, that really helps and then when you also commit to it, going “Do you know what, I am going to make a difference, and do you know what, I’m not going to fail, I’m just going to try this, I’m going to look at the analytics, I’m going to learn from it”. So it’s not about “Oh, that post didn’t do well” it’s always about “Okay, I’m going to post this and I’m going to learn from it!” So when you change that attitude around what that outcome of that post is around, then it’s not all of a sudden “Oh my goodness, pressure, I need this many likes. No, I’m just going to put this out there, I’m going to learn what the interaction is, I’m going to learn what people like about this and then I’m just going to post again tomorrow or the next day or the next week”. And just taking out some of the pressure that I think a lot of people put on themselves when posting on social media and just making it more human again.

[1:06:48] Sahara:
Yes! Amazing! Oh, I’m so excited to see people taking this course and how it’s going to help them share the message of unity and expanding consciousness. There are just so many incredible people who listen to this Podcast and I’m just like “I want you to put your voice and put your message out there!” So I’m just so excited to see where IGA takes them! And we have a really special offer! We are offering $100 off IGA – so we have a code over for you at bossbabe.com/sahara you’ll be able to see IGA there, there’s such an incredible testimonials and stories from people, it’s so inspiring. Sign up for the course! How soon can they get started?

[1:07:23] Natalie:
Right away. So as soon as you sign up, you’ll get instant access, you’ll get on-boarded and you’ll just dive straight in. And the first thing we’re going to cover is really figuring out what’s stopping you from showing up, so what confidence issues might be getting in the way, how do you need to rewire your mindset, and so from the get-go we’re going to be setting you up for success. And then just know that you’re held because listen, I know how scary and overwhelming it can be and some of you might be listening to this like “You know what, yeah, I’m going to do that in a few months when I’m in a better place with my business”, why not do it now so that in a few months when you are ready to launch you’ve already got that set up? So, just know that you are supported! You are joining a course that thousands and thousands of people have joined and have gotten results from, and you’re plugging into that community so you get to ask questions, you get to plug in and see what other people have been doing. So yeah, bossbabe.com/sahara and when you go on that page you’re going to see so many testimonials; you’ll be able to see a full outline of all the modules and then as soon as you sign up, you’ll dive straight in, and then make sure you tag us all in, share your journey because we want to cheer you on!

[1:08:21] Sahara:
Yes! Guys, Danielle and Natalie are the people I immediately think of I have any Instagram, business, any sort of question. I always share the people I want to personally learn from with you guys, so you are seriously learning from the best and you’re also just down-to-earth, female – I feel like a lot of the times it’s Instagram growth, it’s so masculine, it’s like so any odds possible, and you guys really bring it down to human connection and that’s really what we need. And using this as a powerful tool that you can just speak soul to soul with someone and then from there it becomes fun. It’s like “Great, I get to make an impact on someone else’s life, a thousand people’s lives” how insane is that! What a cool time we are incarnated and we can just do that for free!
I think we forget that ten years ago you’d have to buy a billboard or an ad or something to have your message seen by people and now it’s like what, for the cost of learning how to use Instagram? You can just do it for free and get started and be able to reach the exact people that you want. It’s just a really cool time to be alive. So thank you guys so much for sharing with us today, it was such an honor to have you both here.

[1:09:27] Natalie:
Thank you, this was amazing, I absolutely loved it!

[1:09:30] Danielle:
Thank you so much for having us!

[1:09:32] Sahara:
Yay! Namaste!

[1:09:33] Natalie and Danielle:
Namaste!

[1:09:35] End of Interview
___________________________________________

[1:09:35]
I hope you took some notes and if not you can always rewind this Episode and listen to it again because that was gold! I even learned a lot in that Episode.
So, if you’re wanting to learn more about all things Instagram growth, join IGA, it is the best course out there for growing your Instagram. I’m also going to be taking it as well, so I’m super-excited to dive in and learn more from these girls.
So, you can head over to bossbabe.com/sahara and use code ‘SAHARA100’ all capital letters, for $100 off. I have that link in the show notes so if you’re listening just click your show notes, but it’s bossbabe.com/sahara and the coupon code is ‘SAHARA100’ for $100 off.

I hope you enjoyed this Episode, use it to spread your Dharma out to the world using social media and raise the vibration of the planet together.

[1:10:24]
If you loved this Episode, I would love to send you a free gift which is the first half of my unreleased book “Eat Right for Your Mind-Body Type“. This is a different book than “Eat Feel Fresh“. My first book ever which is not released anywhere, and I am gifting it exclusively to those who leave a review of my Podcast in the iTunes store. So all you’ve got to do is head over to iTunes where you’re maybe listening to this podcast and leave a review, take a screenshot that you’ve left it and email it over to me at [email protected] and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book “Eat Right for Your Mind Body Type“, which goes all into Ayurveda, Doshas, Plant-Based Nutrition, Body Types – all of the things in a really fun and engaging way. So this is my gift to you for free for supporting the Podcast. Every single review I personally read. It really helps the podcast be listened to by more people so we can raise the vibration of the planet together, and I am soul grateful to have you on this journey.

Thank you so much for listening and I’ll see you on the next episode. Namaste.

Episode 334: Instagram Growth Strategies with Bossbabe’s Natalie Ellis + Danielle Canty
By Sahara Rose

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