I have been connecting with amazing experts who have supported me as I blossom into my sacred sexuality in new ways – and this week I am bringing in one of my favorites to join me on Highest Self Podcast! Yossef Sagi is one of my dear friends who was very supportive throughout my divorce – but he is also a professional dom, coach, and sex educator.
In this episode, we are diving into…
– Conscious kink and integrating it with tantra
– How to use power dynamics
– How to use different kink tools both sexually and non-sexually
– The role communication plays in BDSM
– The power of being in true surrender
– What it actually means to be a dom and a sub
– Growth in a relationship through tantra/BDSM
– Kink as an embodiment practice to heal trauma
– And so much more about sacred sexuality!
Whether you are new to this world or a BDSM veteran – this episode will be a refreshing twist on a topic many of us don’t fully understand. It’s such a beautiful reminder about the power of flow, surrender, and communication, in our sexuality + relationships. Be sure to share this episode with your partner or a friend so you can explore this enticing world with loved ones!
Connect with Yossef on Instagram here: https://instagram.com/yossefsagi?igsh…
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Transcript
Episode #513: Let’s Get Kinky – A Step-by-Step on How To Do It Consciously with Yossef Sagi
By Sahara Rose
[00:00] Sahara
I’m curious about how kink is used for healing trauma. Because I see a lot of people, actually, go into it as a – it’s like an embodiment practice, that you go into something that maybe was heavier in your life and you recreate it to then choose it, rather than it having happen to you. So, can you share, because I know a lot of your work, as a coach, is trauma-healing with this.
[00:20] Yossef
That’s right, it’s a deeply somatic practice. So, I can give you an example. Let’s say there’s someone who, when they were a child, they were beaten severely by their father, he took a belt on them and just, like, walloped them and left them in the closet, and the mother never did anything to support him. Okay, this is a true experience from a client that I worked with.
So, what the person may choose to do, and what happened in this situation, is, instead of being a victim to that, even though, in life they were a victim, but instead of choosing to remain a victim to it, you choose what happened to you. So, they might come into a scene and then choose to be with a dom that holds a safe space for them, and to go back and have that dom play their father and hit them with the belt, but now they’re asking for it every time. And they say when to start and when to stop, it puts them in control of the situation.
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[01:25] Sahara
Welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, my name is Sahara Rose, and on this Podcast, I love taking spirituality and making it modern, fun, sexy, grounded, so it can actually serve the needs of today’s people.
[01:37] Sahara
If you haven’t noticed, my journey really has been a lot around sacred sexuality. It’s something I’m so interested in, it’s definitely the greatest trauma in my lineage, but also our greatest gift because we’re fucking sexy in here!
[01:49] Sahara
And I love bringing on guests who have really helped me open and blossom in new ways, my friends and personal teachers. And you’re going to hear one of these today!
[01:59] Sahara
So, let’s talk a little bit about kink. To be honest, when I took my erotic blueprint quiz a few years ago, the one I was the least in was kink. I didn’t even understand it, I was like “I don’t get, like, someone wants pain, like, why would you want that? Like, I want to feel good, I want to feel worshipped “, and it just didn’t make any sense to me.
However, I started to open up and understand more and more of it through listening to podcasts and with my friends, and I started to see how, on the other side of something that might even feel painful or restrictive, is actually this great liberation and pleasure on the other side.
[02:37] Sahara
So, this dear friend of mine who was, like, so there for me throughout my divorce, Yossef, is like, he’s a professional dom, guys, like, straight-up, he is a professional dom. And he’s a dear friend of mine (Natalie’s partner), and he’s so wise, and so learned about the subject. So, I wanted to bring him on the Podcast to talk about conscious kink and integrating it with tantra which, a lot of us think there’s, like, tantra on one end, which is very, like, sensual, and slow, and eye-gazing, and sacred, and then, like, kink, which is like rough, and dirty, and, like, you’ve got to be a freak if you like that, and they’re like these opposite ends of the spectrum.
And what he does so beautifully is, he really integrates the two. So, we’re going to learn about how to use power dynamics and different tools, on ourselves or with partners, both sexually and even non-sexually, as well, is something I’ve learned a lot about the kink space.
[03:27] Sahara
So, without further ado, let’s welcome Yossef, here on the Podcast!
[03:30] Sahara
Thank you for having me, it’s an honor to be here.
[03:32] Sahara
The first question I’d love to ask you is, what makes you your highest self?
[03:36] Yossef
I think what makes me my highest self, and it’s why I got into Tantra and it’s why I got into BDSM, is, I have a constant desire to understand myself better. I want to know why I do what I do, I want to know why I have these patterns. I’m always looking to integrate all these different aspects, I don’t feel there’s anything to change, or to fix, or that there’s anything wrong, but I want to integrate all these different parts so that I can become a more whole person.
So, as time has gone on, I have become more and more whole, what’s highest self if not that?
[04:08] Sahara
And that is exactly what I feel the kink space does, it causes us to question “Well, why do we like that thing and what’s underneath there?”
So, can you share a little bit about how we can make kink more conscious?
[04:20] Yossef
Yeah, I love that you actually pose this question, of tantra vs. kink, and they seem so different. The more and more that I study them, I see how similar they are, actually. And kink is probably the most conscious type of sex that exists out there right now, more than tantra, more than any other type, because of the sheer level of communication that happens around BDSM scenes.
I think the gift of the kink community is bringing in consent, communication, boundaries, desires, communicating all these different things to create a safe space for expression.
[04:53] Sahara
It’s so true. Like, you know, you did this session on me and we were talking and I was like, oh my god, like, I would never have the courage to be like “Do this! Do that! Do that!” And I’m learning that, in the kink space, this explicit communication, it’s an integral part of it because you wouldn’t be able to play out these scenes and these fantasies if you don’t have really direct communication, but a lot of us, we don’t – you know, for me, a lot of it was like, I don’t want to come off as controlling, right? So, then, you’re silent and then you’re not getting what you want and that partner’s not giving, which, they want to satisfy you, and it’s just giving us more unconscious sex.
[05:25] Yossef
That’s right, and there’s this fallacy about the idea of submissive that they’re supposed to be passive. A submissive isn’t passive, a submissive is active in their surrender and in their communication of their desires.
The last submissive that a dom wants to work with is one that says “I don’t know what I want”, because that’s where the danger is, that’s when you start playing in the mind field. You have to be very clear about what you want and then let go of how you think it’s supposed to get there, and that’s the surrender.
[05:55] Sahara
That’s so fascinating, because I was having a conversation with some friends the other day, with Natalie as well, and a lot of women were like “I just want to be the sub and not think and, like, let him just, like, do everything and take over”, but then, yeah, you shared with me a lot of what a dom actually wants, is someone to tell them “I want this, and this, and that”, so they can be of service.
So, can you share a little bit about how the dom is actually really here to be of service to the sub?
[06:21] Yossef
Absolutely! And where this all really ties into, especially when you have a male dom with a female sub, is just that, historically, men have had a lot of privilege in their self-expression, especially around their sexuality, and women haven’t had that same amount. When a woman expressed her sexuality, she was shamed, right, slut-shaming.
And so, the service, the greatest service, that the dom provides for the sub is creating a permission field for the sub to be in her full expression. It’s holding space, it’s what every feminine wants from her masculine, is to be held.
And the new paradigm that’s coming in is “I’m a woman now, I’m making my own money, I don’t need you to support me financially, I don’t need you to control me, I don’t need you to keep me safe, what I need you to do is to hold a container so I can be in my full expression, that’s all of my emotions, all of my sexuality, everything. And I want to know that you’re not going to be terrified by it, I want to know that you’re going to honor it and hold that for me”.
[07:27] Sahara
That’s hot!
[07:29] Yossef
That’s right!
[07:31] Sahara
It’s so true, because when you experience those deeper levels of safety and that container, it’s like new levels of wildness open up within you that you just couldn’t. And I think the feminine, kind of, tests, of like “Can I show this much? Can I show this much? Can I show that much?”, and we can feel how much we can be held.
So, my question is, what if your partner is not on this, like, tantric, kink, conscious, sex path, is there anything we can do?
[07:56] Yossef
I believe where, and it’s a cliché, but where there’s a will, there’s a way. The person just has to be willing to do the work.
There’s a lot of times – what happens is, in a relationship is, one person does so much work on themself, that they outgrow the relationship. If the other person is too terrified to look at themselves first, there’s probably not a chance that it’ll work. But if the person is willing to do their own personal work, then they can meet in the container together, be it tantra, be it BDSM, there’s a lot of different modalities. But there needs to be a will for it to happen.
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[09:41] Sahara
So, I want to talk about some different tools that we can bring in and just to start playing with it. So, the first one is the rope – and you brought some with you here today! So, can you bring out a rope and tie me up, and show the audience. And for those of you watching this on Spotify and on YouTube, you can watch Lana and him doing it.
First of all, what is the significance of the rope? I feel like, when we think of kink, we think of someone being tied up, what is this about?
[10:04] Yossef
So, as the dom, there’s two things that you’re doing to your sub. You’re containing them and you’re penetrating them. And that’s what the feminine desires from the masculine, to be contained and held, and then to be penetrated, only after the containment is there. A lot of times there’s a rush towards the penetration.
And so, containment happens with your energy, it happens with your beingness, and it can be supported through the B part of BDSM, which is Bondage, which includes rope, or cuffs, or even blindfolding is a type of bondage, gagging, and there’s a lot of different ways.
And so, rope acts as a surrogate to support the dom in creating a containment for the sub.
[10:47] Sahara
Okay. So, how do we start working with the rope? Can you show us like a basic rope tie?
[10:51] Yossef
Yes, I can show you the most basic rope tie that anyone can do.
[10:54] Sahara
Oaky.
[10:55] Yossef
Although there’s a lot more fun ones.
[10:56] Sahara
At home rope tie, yes.
[10:58] Yossef
For black or red?
[10:59] Sahara
Let’s go with red, baby.
[11:01] Yossef
That’s what I thought.
[11:01] Sahara
Red flaming hot!
[11:02] Yossef
So, the first thing you want to do with a rope is, we’re always working with a rope that we fold in half, we get the double length on it, and we’re always looking for the middle. So, you hold it at the ends and you pull until you find the middle, called ‘the bite’.
For this particular tie, it’s a very simple tie, what we’re going to do is, we’re going to find the middle and then we’re going to create an equal distance, sort of like an “M’ shape around. And the most easy tie that you can do is, you just take these two loops and then you spin them in your hands a few times, just like this. And then you create a double loop here, both hands through, and this creates a very simple slip knot that anyone can do.
And so, if I pull on it a little bit, you feel held by that experience. If I’m as the dom, I let go of that, there’s safety. So, you always want to make sure that the rope is tat and the sub feels held in experience.
And I also, always like to remind my subs, particularly with this knot, it’s a very easy release if you ever need to get out of it, it just slips right out. So, that’s the simplest of the ties.
[12:14] Sahara
Yeah, I think there’s something that the feminine desires, especially because we’re so in our masculine all the time, we’re in our heads, we’re working, we’re in control of a lot, to literally be unable to do.
And I think also, sexually, a lot of us, like, have a hard time to not be, like, touching that other person back because we feel if someone’s giving, we must give back. So, it’s something about the literal containment of like, you can’t, you must just receive and be taken, that’s what makes it alluring.
[12:43] Yossef
That’s right! So many women are programmed that their sexuality is to serve men and to please men. So, first of all, it takes that off the table.
And second of all, you know, you might say “Oh, well, I don’t get to choose, as the sub, I don’t have a choice”, first of all, you always have a choice entering into the situation. But another way to think of it is, you don’t have to choose, you don’t have to make one more decision today, I got you, I’m going to take care of this. And if you’re doing that with someone that you trust and you know that they got you and you know that they’ve devoted themself to this journey that they’ve created for you, that’s the ultimate surrender. Because a good dom is himself surrendered to the divine working through him, it’s not about my attachment to what I want, there’s something bigger working here. And a sub knows when a dom is in that space, and it’s not about what he wants and that he’s doing it for himself and he’s in a place of service, and then she feels the divine working through him.
[13:46] Sahara
There’s something that’s so hot about someone who has your best interest at heart. And because of that, like, you don’t always get what you want, but you get what you need.
And I’ve been really toying with the philosophy that God is my dom and that, like, God is always guiding me and sees things from a higher view that I can’t. And sometimes it’s like, yeah, I’ve got to go through the muck, I’ve got to go through the pain, but God’s got my back! Sky daddy up there knows that my greatest pleasure is on the other side. So, sometimes I’m a little bit restricted because I know, from there, I’m going to be ravished with all of the blessing that I desire.
[14:21] Yossef
That’s exactly right. And all sky daddy wants from you is your submission.
[14:25] Sahara
Oh, yes! Okay, you brought some other toys, can you tell us about this flogger here?
[14:30] Yossef
So, these here are floggers. And a lot of time, probably what you see with BDSM or what people assume is “I’m going to take this and whip someone until it hurts them”, and that is one way to use them. But my floggers, in particular, are sensual floggers. And I think of these as tools to regulate someone’s nervous system.
When I use these floggers, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system by flooding the system with oxytocin, and then, occasionally, they’ll get a spicy hit where adrenaline comes into the body, but it comes in a place of such deep rest and surrender that pain becomes pleasure in that place.
So, this actually creates a hypnotic state for the sub and really helps them to sink deeper and deeper into what we call that sub space. And from me, as a dom, it puts me in s state of flow. When you look at it, it looks actually very artistic, the way that it’s used, it’s almost like with a poi, the way that you play it. And that’s the gift, for the dom, is to be in flow, and for the sub to be in surrender.
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[16:39] Sahara
My friend Alexa, who was on this Podcast, who, you know, teaches in various sexual spaces, she did a flogging session on me, and it was really interesting because it was almost like fireworks, like, it was like this rhythmic, kind of, little slaps with it. And then yeah, like, sometimes a bigger firework, or, like, littler ones. She had me, before, say, what’s, like, out of 1-10, like, the different sensations. So, she always knew like “What was this?”, “It was a 6”, or like “How much do you want to go?”, and it definitely really brought me back into my body, and it was this great, like, exhale and this great release, but it wasn’t sexual in any way actually. I had my clothes on, she’s like a pregnant girlfriend of mine, you know, but it was such a cool way to…you know, a lot of us think “Oh, I need to, to drop into my body, I have to do yoga, or work out, or something, but you can just flog your friends, guys.
[17:27] Yossef
That’s right.
[17:27] Sahara
It’s a new way of doing it.
[17:28] Yossef
She sounds like a great dom. And actually, the best, one of my favorite explanations of what it works like, is when you hold a baby over your shoulder and you just tap them on the back, rhythmically.
[17:37] Sahara
It was.
[17:37] Yossef
It relaxes them and puts them to sleep. Natalie, sometimes, has me do this to her before bed, to help her relax and go to bed.
[17:44] Sahara
I love that. So, what is this other little spanker thing we have over here? Is this the cane?
[17:51] Yossef
No, I don’t have the cane.
[17:52] Sahara
Okay.
[17:54] Yossef
I have a few other things.
[17:56] Sahara
Okay.
[17:56] Yossef
So, these two tools over here, this one’s a crop, it looks like a riding crop, right? And I brought it because it’s another impact tool like many other impact tools. But this one reminds me of discipline, which is the D in BDSM.
And a lot of what BDSM is about is, we know that we crave to have a freedom, we’re also afraid that we’re going to hurt ourselves if we’re too free. But then, if we are disciplined by our doms and we know that they put boundaries in place, they create a safety net, then we can truly be free.
So, I brought this as a tool because, often times, you’ll think of, it’s sort of like when you crop a horse, or a teacher having a crop, so that’s the idea. And this is a paddle.
And this, along with my hand, or actually, like, some of the fun tools for spanking, which, again, is tied to discipline. But the reason I brought the paddle is because this one in particular says ‘love’ on it. And that’s something important to remember, and you can actually leave this mark on someone. And it’s important to remember that, whatever you do in that container, that you set a scene that you set, will be from a place of love, even if it looks like extreme pain. And there are some extreme scenes that I’ve been a part of, it always comes from a place of love and service.
[19:22] Sahara
So, I’m curious about how kink is used for healing trauma. Because I see a lot of people, actually, go into it as a – it’s like an embodiment practice, that you go into something that maybe was heavier in your life and you recreate it to then choose it, rather than it having happen to you. So, can you share, because I know a lot of your work, as a coach, is trauma-healing with this.
[19:42] Yossef
That’s right, it’s a deeply somatic practice. So, I can give you an example. Let’s say there’s someone who, when they were a child, they were beaten severely by their father, he took a belt on them and just, like, walloped them and left them in the closet, and the mother never did anything to support him. Okay, this is a true experience from a client that I worked with.
So, what the person may choose to do, and what happened in this situation, is, instead of being a victim to that, even though, in life they were a victim, but instead of choosing to remain a victim to it, you choose what happened to you. So, they might come into a scene and then choose to be with a dom that holds a safe space for them, and to go back and have that dom play their father and hit them with the belt, but now they’re asking for it every time. And they say when to start and when to stop, it puts them in control of the situation.
And then, in the after-care portion, of this particular scene that I did, there’s always an after-care portion, I switched and transitioned into the mom role. So, now, I held this person in my arms, as a mom, in a way that he never got held, he had to learn to self-regulate. In this case, he got to be held by me, as his mom, so it reprogrammed the situation.
Now, you can really go crazy with this scene, you can say “Now, I want to be the dad, I want to put myself in his shoes. I want to see what it’s like to hurt somebody else”, but it’s in a consensual situation. So, you can play all kinds of different dynamics.
And it’s almost like doing aspecting of a situation, you see the different sides and it can create a tremendous up-healing, when done right.
[21:20] Sahara
It sounds very similar to Family Constellations work. You know, when you do it in a group setting, you play the different roles of your parents and your grandparents, and then when you step into that, then, all of a sudden, you’re acting like the rage of your dad or the wounding of your grandmother, and it’s very edgy work, you know, and it’s definitely not for everyone, it has to be something that you’re choosing to go into.
But I do think, it’s sort of like improv, you know, and when you’re acting something, you gain awarenesses and understanding that role, in a way that you wouldn’t have just from your perspective because you’re literally stepping into someone else’s shoes.
And I do think a lot of wounding has also happened around sexuality, you know, and it is a powerful way to put yourself in this position of choice, and control, and power, when many of us, especially as children, as teenagers. A lot of sexual encounters were not our choice, so this is just such powerful work for this.
[22:16] Yossef
Yeah.
[22:17] Sahara
So, for people who are maybe in a partnership that there is a desire for more power dynamics, for more polarity, how can we start to just bring that into the relationship, even before the bedroom? Because you shared with me the dom role really starts, like, way before the scene.
[22:33] Yossef
Yeah. So, working, in particular, in the BDSM scene, the scene itself is the middle of the sandwich, and I already hinted at the part that comes after, which is the after-care, which is decided upon at the beginning, and that beginning part, before the scene, is negotiation. So, that’s where the communication comes into play.
And I’ve created my own negotiation documents, and you’ll find them with any person who does this work, they usually create their own. And sometimes, just looking at these documents can be extremely illuminating and triggering because you’re like “Oh wow, look at all these different things that can happen”. Now, if you’re in a partnership, and you start having communication around that, then you learn a lot about each other.
So, some of the work that I’ve done with couples, a lot of times they think that something’s not working with their intimacy or their sexuality, and it’s because they’re not talking about it, they’re not talking about what they want. And I can come out of one session with them and they’re like “Wow, I didn’t know you had that part of you”, and others are like “You never asked”, and you’re like “Well, I never said”. And so, that communication, and that starts by really eradicating the shame around your own sexuality.
[23:42] Sahara
I think that’s so powerful because a lot of people are in relationships where they don’t actually really know what the other person wants, and they’re both playing roles thinking that that’s what the other person desires. So, having a form where, maybe, all options are out there, and yeah, it can be like “Wait, what’s pussy slapping, huh?”, you know, because there’s weird things on there, but because we’ve just never heard about it. And there’s still so much shame around sexual expression out there.
But then, putting to the table, like, what are your fantasies and what are the greatest things, because it’s like, what a great gift of service to be able to have you partner have, like, their ultimate fantasy happen, and to have yours, and do it in a way that’s consensual, and safe, and fun, and it can really bring couples together in such a closer way and, I feel like, take relationships to the next level, but it requires that honesty and that communication which, I think, is ultimately what we fear is the abandonment that might happen, of like “If I really share what I wanted, they’ll think I’m too much, too weird, too whatever”, and it’s releasing those stories because we are all here to be explorative and playful.
[24:41] Yossef
I truly believe if you have a desire and you God-planted that desire in you, and you know, being in this field for a while, I’ve heard some pretty out-there types of desires, and so, you can be like “Well, how is that okay?”, “How is that divine?” The question isn’t whether or not you can step into the desire, it’s how you can do it. And as soon as something is consensual and, like, really, truly planned consciously, then you can play all kinds of scenes. You can even play a scene that seems to have betrayal but you’re really role-playing with your own partner, right? So, you can explore those dynamics if you’re in a monogamous relationship by doing role play. You can explore a lot of different things that would normally be taboo, but it starts, you know, if the desire isn’t expressed, even just verbally, any repressed desire will find an unhealthy way to express itself, it’s going to come out one way or another. So, why not speak about it, and then why not find a way to create a container to bring that to life, in a healthy way.
[25:45] Sahara
So agreed! Ah, this is such powerful work! And thank you for sharing it with such, like, grace. And you’re so educated about it and you’re really carry this, like, grounded and very, like, spiritual and wise, but you’re also like “Yeah, let’s bring in the ropes and the this and the that”, and you carry a full spectrum. And we definitely have to have you back on and dive more into these things, I’m very much a newbie in this world, so hopefully, next time you come on, I’ll be more experienced.
And I’m also very interested in like, yeah, learning more about the psychology of this because it is – I’m seeing it come into the collective a lot more, a lot more people are talking about kink as a form of healing, and I do feel like, it is, sort of, on this next frontier of the somatic healing movement.
So, thank you for being a pioneer and for really doing this work for so long. And where can listeners connect with you further?
[26:32] Yossef
The best way to follow me is on my Instagram, it’s @yossefsagi or my website www.yossefsagi.com you’ve just got to spell it right, I’m the only one.
[26:43] Sahara
Perfect! Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. If you loved this Episode, please share it, share it with your partner, maybe this is your way of introducing this, of like “Hey, I listened to this Episode, it’s kind of interesting, you want to, like, check it out? Like, I also ordered some ropes and handcuffs and chains”, [Sahara sings], that’s the song whenever I think of kink, that comes up.
[27:03] Yossef
I’m sorry, do Rihanna’s S&M.
[27:06] Sahara
Sings – So many songs about it, so, it just shows that now we get to integrate it into everything else, and again, not see that as separation, but rather, tantra is too weave and to become one with. So, share the Episode!
[27:23] Sahara
Please leave a review for it in the iTunes Store, share with me any questions you have, if you want to have Yossef back on, what would you like to talk to him about, and as a FREE gift, I will send you my Free Womb Meditation. So, this is a meditation to connect to your sacred womb space and receive her wisdom.
So, take a screenshot, email it over to me to me at [email protected] you can find that link in the show notes.
[27:44] Sahara
Again, thank you for tuning in, I’ll see you in the next one!
Episode#513: Let’s Get Kinky – A Step-by-Step on How To Do It Consciously with Yossef Sagi
By Sahara Rose