Highest Self Podcast 324: Miracles vs Magick in Modern Spirituality with Benjamin Decker


There are so many spiritual practices, lineages, traditions and wisdoms out there. How do we find our own? In this episode we discuss being in touch with your higher nature, what spiritual traditions all have in common and what to do if you come from a Christian background like himself and not sure how to include spiritual practices in your life. We also discuss the concept of miracles vs magick, which is about the path of surrendering to the divine vs manifesting your reality. This is a deep-dive conversation and one that all you spiritual nerds + lovers will resonate with! Learn ore with Ben at @benjaminwdecker and bendeckermeditation.com/

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Episode 324: Miracles vs Magick in Modern Spirituality with Benjamin Decker
By Sahara Rose

Namaste. It’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes You, Your Soul’s Highest Evolvement.

I absolutely love having my friends on the Podcast and diving deep into different spiritual topics, nuances, belief systems, and how we can live a life that is interconnected with all of the different modalities out there, and really taking what serves us and stepping into this new evolvement of what spirituality looks like that’s out of one structure, one belief system, one practice, but really taking a hodgepodge of different findings that we resonate with and letting ourselves roll with that. And I really think that that is what the spiritual movement is all about – fine-tuning your own practice and not feeling like you have to follow the guru; follow the scripture; follow any rule; it’s about you and your own relationship to your spirit and however that shows up for you.

So, as you know for me, it has been really about Embodiment; really about the Goddesses – the Divine Feminine Wisdom; about Ayurveda; ancient knowledge; Vedic spirituality. These have been practices that have really resonated with me, and I have so many different friends that have found different modalities that work with them.

So, one of my great friends, Ben Decker, is such a genius; he’s such a scholar, with all things spiritual wisdom, and I really wanted to have him on the Podcast to dive deep into all different types of theories that he studies and writes about in his new book “Modern Spirituality” and how we can find our own balance between them all.
He comes from a really unique background of being a Latter-day Saint Christian and then going on his own journey of studying many different types of spiritual modalities.

So, I wanted to have him on the Podcast to talk about different concepts and also this idea of Miracles vs Magic.
So, we live in a world that right now is very focused on Manifestation; Law of Attraction; how can I use spirituality to get the things that I want “I want this boyfriend! I want this car! I want this house; I want this whatever it is.”
And, I’ve talked about this on the Podcast before, but to me it’s a bit of missing the plot of what the spirituality is all about – it’s really about being in touch with your soul and it’s great if you end up having a car or whatever it is that you want but that’s not the point. The point of spirituality is not to use it as a tool to get the things that you want but it’s really more as a tool to understand your true self.

So we speak about this concept of Miracles vs Magic of Surrendering versus Creating and how we can have balance between the two. Because it’s really not one or the other, it’s about finding our own way of letting the Universe provide for us, and also taking aligned action towards what it is that we want.

So, in this Episode we dive deep into many types of spiritual concepts; we go down many, many different rabbit holes; so if you’re a spiritual nerd like I am or you’re just curious to learn more about what are these modalities, what are their belief systems, how can I find what works with me – you’re going to love this Episode.

So, without further ado, let’s welcome Ben Decker to The Highest Self Podcast.

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So many of us are really awakening in our spiritual paths and realizing that spirituality is so much more than more information, more manifestation, more materialism, but it really all comes down to Embodiment – being in touch with who you are, your Truth, your Soul’s Purpose. And we’re realizing that so much of spirituality has been so focused on the masculine, how to disconnect; how to be still; how to be nothing, but really, what the feminine wants is to be like everything, with her movements, and her expressions, and her community, and her joy, and her purpose. And this is why I created Rose Gold Goddesses – it is the feminine approach to spirituality where each and every month we are tapping into different Goddess archetypes.
So, this past month we were working with Goddess Gaia, connecting to our grounded, earthy, anchored energy, especially while the world is so chaotic.
The month before that we were tuning into Goddess Ixchel, connecting to our Womb Wisdom, our menstrual cycles, aligning them with the Moon.
Before that, we have been connecting with so many Goddesses, from Lalita Sundari – for sacred sensuality; to Durga – for courage, for our Dharma; to Quan Yin – for compassion; to Bridget – for new beginnings; and so many others.
So, if you are loving The Higher Self Podcast and these types of conversations and Episodes that really take spirituality to that deeper, ancient, embodied, earthy, and feminine element, and you’re craving to connect with spiritual soul sisters who are also resonating with this more embodied approach to spirituality – then I invite you to join us in Rose Gold Goddesses, the sacred sisterhood collective, all about embodying the Goddess within.
So, besides the monthly Goddess Circles, we have so many workshops that I’ve created for you, from my Healing and Embodiment Through Dance course, to my Awaken Your Powers Masterclass with Shaman Durek; my 10-day Discover Your Dharma audio course. Starting in January, we’re going to be putting Dharma pods together, so you can create your own mastermind of people to support you to find your Dharma, and so much more. There is no Community out there like this, if you check out the website and see the transformations women have had from being part of this Community, you will be mind-blown.
So, head over to rosegoldgoddesses.com to join the Community now, and I’m soul excited to meet you inside. Again, that’s rosegoldgoddesses.com and I’ll see you in there.

[6:11] End of Advertisement

[6:12] Interview

[6:12] Sahara:
Welcome Ben to The Highest Self Podcast, it’s so great to have you here.

[6:15] Ben
Thrilled to finally be here with you Sahara!

[6:17] Sahara:
This is going to be a good one, I can feel it!
So, the first question I’d love to ask you is what makes you, your highest self?

[6:25] Ben:
You know, it’s the word that came up as soon as you said that just now. I had another answer because I knew you were going to ask me, but as soon as you said it, the word was ‘effort’. And it’s so funny because a lot of times we talk about ‘effortless’, we want things to be effortless, but what’s the point of our free will if we don’t try.
So, I think trying; I think a sincere desire in my heart to be my highest self is what really spearheads that – the desire – leads to all the different actions, all the different practices, all the different decisions, that desire to actually be the highest self.

[7:02] Sahara:
And I think this is a really important topic because a lot of us, when we learn about spirituality, it’s “Follow the path of least resistance.” So one could take that as “The least resistance for me to remain at my job or living with my parents; or whatever this thing that I’m not really happy about, but it’s my current circumstance.” So, the most “spiritual” thing for me to do is to accept where I’m at.
So, where would you, because I think this whole lineage of ‘acceptance’ and ‘surrender’ versus ‘you create your reality and take action’. How can we find balance between these two?

[7:36] Ben:
I love that you said balance between these two because so many people want to say it’s one way or another, and it’s not, it’s all of it. It’s the dance, we know the Shiva Shakti, it’s the same with our own Shiva Shakti – it’s our own “Are we going to move; are we going to decide?” or “Are we going to be; are we going to receive?”
And so, the idea in my mind with that is – we got to get so present; we’ve got to start with that acceptance; we get so present and the more we let go of our internal resistance to that which actually is right now, the more our own physical and psychic faculties start to take in the reality of the different layers and dynamics of the present moment; so, from a higher place we can take action.

[8:25] Sahara:
There’s this very famous quote and it’s like “God give me coffee for the things I can change and wine for the things I can’t.” It’s kind of what it is, we’re in quarantine, we can’t change that, but what can we do in this situation?

[8:40] Ben:
Right! Yes, perfect!

[8:42] Sahara:
Yes! So, speaking of quarantine, it’s been a crazy year! Last time you were here was in February – little did we know was about to go down, even though I know you were getting some psychic hits of “I fell some things that I have planned for the Fall may not happen (Spirit was speaking through you).”
So, this year has been, I call it the Global Ayahuasca Ceremony. For so many people it’s been a lot of shadows and confronting unknowns, so how can we get in touch with, as you put in your book, our higher nature in this time?

[9:12] Ben:
Well I love the way that you’re framing that question. It’s the reality that we are in an unusual time. The first sentence in the introduction of this book “Acknowledge is a very important fact” which is we are living in a time of the fulfillment of the ancient prophesies. All of our ancestors of all of the different cultures, they told our people about this time. They looked into the future and they saw this moment. They saw these things, they described it. And so, from that point we have some insight.
If we know there’s greater wisdom and there’s greater insight in that knowledge, and in some special ways we look around the world and we see synchronicity, and we can learn to interpret symbol and synchronicity. We used to call that reading the signs, reading the tea leaves, reading the cards, reading the stars. We read the signs of what’s happening within collective consciousness. 2020 means clarity; 2020 in our consciousness means perfect division, which means revelation.
And I was raised in the Christian tradition which I still identify culturally as a Christian but of course I’m religiously pluralistic in my studied practice and experience. And a lot of Christians are kind of surprised by some of my approaches with things, but in the Christian tradition we read in the Bible, in the Book of Revelation. 2020 means Revelation. In the Book of Revelation that’s where we have our lineage of the prophesies about this period of time which foretells of a great transition where we will go from wars (rumors of wars), calamities, pandemic and disease into an era of cooperation, clarity, insight a thousand years of peace is the prophecy – one thousand years of peace. So there is a special symbol in the reality that 2020 means Revelation.
So for people in that tradition, like me, I see that when I work with that. So from the very beginning of this year I knew it was going to be an unusual year. I spoke at a church service (at a Universalist Church service) so it’s a very diverse community, this first Sunday of this year about what I was getting – and if you watch it today it looks like I was in on it. It looks like I knew the plan, I knew what was going to happen, but I of course didn’t. I was just reading a sign and I saw that 2020 means a perfect vision. That means we’re going to see things we were pretending we weren’t there. We’re going to be a collective – I love what you said the collective Ayahuasca ceremony.
So, here’s the deal – we have a dual nature. This is one of the things all ancient traditions agree on in one way or another. And it’s the fact that we have a dual nature. And in some traditions we say it’s a higher nature or a lower nature; in some traditions we say it’s yin or yang; but there’s this quality of duality within our own nature and finding the way those two things will interact with themselves.
So, finding our higher nature right now (to use that) – I like to say higher and lower nature because it’s spiritual and physical. The physical body has these cravings and stuff that the spiritual nature doesn’t have. The physical body was born and will one day die, but the Spirit does not do that. The Spirit was never born and will never die, so the Spirit has greater eternal knowledge and greater powers than the lower nature. So the idea is to tame the lower nature, tame the beast; tame the animal nature to your highest self, to guidance from your highest self.
So that’s what I love about your whole approach, is like the reality is there are different dimensions to our own inner world. And so, to tune into our won higher nature is to become conscious right now. To answer your question “How do we do that right now?” it’s to get real right now, and I believe that anyone within the sound of my voice right now is an extraordinarily powerful being of divine origin, divine origin – so to me, that means that the more present we get, the less we are on the side of history that is powerless and weak right now, and the more we are empowered. I know that in the past you and I have talked about how there’s all these different conspiracy theories and everything like that – look, get powerful, get powerful! Someone owns those newspapers; someone owns those TV networks; why don’t you own one? You can own the network! We’re over here talking about getting on this show or that show, there’s a whole network and people own it, and those people are not better, smarter, worse, more or less spiritual, more or less anything than you, it’s just that that’s what their Dharma, their destiny has created for them.
So it’s about, I think right now, tuning into our higher nature is about tuning in to our unique powers and realizing that we do have powers, we do have gifts and that there is not a single thing wrong with you, there’s a matrix of dynamics that creates your gifts.

[14:11] Sahara:
So beautifully expressed, I was nodding along the whole time! And you brought up a really important nuance that I think a lot of us are struggling with and it’s the people in power. “Who are these people in power? They want the worst for society!” And I think a lot of these conspiracies are based on – and again, we don’t know the answers to everything, we’re just operating from our limited perspective as well – but it’s this idea that there are people in power and they are bad, and us, good people are powerless. And it’s preventing people from getting their voices out there trying to create their own shows and their own media etc. because they think that only bad people do this. So can you speak into this a little bit more as someone who is a conscious media creator?

[14:56] Ben:
Well definitely, everything in the material world is a creation, and a vessel, and a channel for divine energies, and there is an entire spectrum of life force energy. Mythologically speaking, in the pre-existence, before this world was created, there are all these different stories of the higher forces and the lower forces, and their relationship before this world was ever created. So, in the tradition I was raised in, which I discuss in the book – I discuss a lot of traditions in the book but I share a few key things about the unique lineage that I have because it’s not a traditional Christian lineage.
In the lineage that I was raised, we were taught that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers before the world was created, and that they had different plans for the world, for this planet specifically, and that their dad said “Okay, campaign!” And they campaigned in the Heavens, and Jesus, his whole campaign was free will, every incarnation gets free will, specifically to humanity. And Lucifer wanted everyone to be perfect; he wanted everyone to be born perfect and to live out a perfected life. And so, there was a debate in the Heavens and Christ won, Jesus won, and so he became the God of this Planet and therefore everyone was born with free will. And that is very, very special when you start to think about it. We’re of divine origin; we’re Gods and Goddesses among Gods and Goddesses. So we have great powers on this Planet.
And these people in power, look, there’s a lot of people in power, and some of them are partnering with lower level energy dynamics like greed, and gluttony, and fear, and violence; and others are partnering with higher qualities like generosity, healing, peace, patience, goodness, nurturing. And so, there is a matrix of higher, of more powerful individuals who are more powerful because of their ability to wield resources through systems, through money, through relationships. So there is an invisible hierarchy, and one of the Prophesies about this time, described something called ‘the externalization of the hierarchy, of the spiritual hierarchy’, which means that there are higher and lower vibrational individuals. We ourselves are higher and lower vibrational at certain times, right? And then when you sort of operate consistently from a higher vibration, they describe you as part of the spiritual hierarchy, and it could be a single mom, it could be a nurse, it could be a professional, it could be a massage therapist, it could be a dump truck driver, it’s an invisible spiritual hierarchy based on the purity of the heart of the individual.
And one of the things that’s happening right now is a great transition where the hierarchy of the planet will shift from a hierarchy of a lower vibrational forces based on physical resources and money and will repolarize around the spiritual hierarchy, and so we call that the externalization of the spiritual hierarchy, which means something that is an internal, invisible hierarchy will begin to become apparent because more of us will become attuned to those more subtle, intuitive senses that each of us has. More of us becoming attuned, initiated; more of us practicing spiritual practices, we start to state “Okay, there’s something cool with this one” and it’s kind of real recognize real, it’s like “Okay, alright, cool!” You can start to pick up on higher vibrational people.

[18:44] Sahara:
I love that – the invisible! And when you say hierarchy too, I feel like what some people suffer with, so it’s like “So then if I think a bad thought, am I only going to manifest bad things and my life is going to suck?”
So can you speak a little bit more into just this topic of manifestation. I think it gets a lot of people “So, is God listening to my every thought and is going to punish me?” And also with coming from a Christian background and a lot of people having this fear of committing a sin or doing the wrong thing and being punished by God and maybe taking those same viewpoints into this more spiritual realm. Can you speak a little bit more into that?

[19:20] Ben:
Yes! God created this Universe with certain laws and God likes those laws, God likes the cycling of the planet, God likes the season, God likes the way nature works because it’s designed that way. It’s a perfectly programmed field for us to explore in.
And so, there are certain universal laws. One of those laws is the Law of Attraction and Repulsion. A lot of people shorten that and call the Law of Attraction. But a more complete term is A More Magnetic Understanding of the Law of Attraction and Repulsion.
And so, the idea is – no, there is no punishment. You are not punished by God; God created this Universe and this Universe has Karma in it, and so, that Karma will come back so that you can refine that which is happening. It’s not a punishment by an angry ego identity; it’s a system in place for the purification of your soul. It’s a system in place designed to train you for great powers. Look, there’s a bigger thing going on than this little planet. As we know in the Vedic traditions, from the Mahabharata, that this planet has got Mahabharata to go through; it’s got lifetimes and reincarnations in this own planet before it becomes a pure, sacred planet. It’s considered that this planet is on its own enlightenment journey, so if that’s the case – we’re very, very young as creatures, and so, really, you start to look into the future, we’ll be colonizing other planets and we’ll be Gods of other worlds. What kind of Gods will we be? Will we be wise Gods on these other worlds? This isn’t science fiction, this is inevitable.
So what I see with all of, especially of the people of the Christian tradition – look, if we really believe that what we’re taught is directly literal, then what we need to do is read the original text, pray, meditate about them, and start to understand what was literally being spoken because we’re talking about the Heavens; we’re talking about the infinite. And the ancient languages were written at a deeper level of consciousness than our very utilitarian experience with English. With English we get really, really specific. In the ancient traditions it’s more poetic; more nuanced; we didn’t have separation of church and state; we didn’t have a separation of politics and art. So, poetry, and church, and politics, and philosophy was all one communication, one expression, one delivery. So we had to realize that these ancient texts – what I love about the Vedas is its physical health and nutrition is such a huge part of it. We don’t find that in a lot of the other traditions. And that’s before the separation of food and politics or whatever, the separation of church and state is an illusion, everything is interwoven and connected to one another of course.

[22:14] Sahara:
I love that so much and I think that that gives people a lot more perspective. I always say Karma in this definition is kind of like the barricades on the side of the highway to keep you in alignment with your Dharma. So when you’re going off track, it can feel like a poke, and then a punch, and then a collision and it’s not to hurt or harm or even punish you, it’s so, the is Universe nudging to you to get back into alignment, and the language that it speaks in is “Do you feel more joy and flow and momentum, or do you feel stuck and stagnant and “life’s tough, get a helmet.” If it’s the latter that means you’re not in alignment with your purpose.

[22:51] Ben:
Exactly, yeah. And so what I see, especially when we start to use the religious languaging that we find in our family traditions and everything, which is not the languaging I use in the book “Modern Spirituality”, but I did use that sort of language in meditations on Christ because it was written specifically for a Christian audience. And when we start to look at all of that we start to realize that the thing that always matters is how we are; how we are in our hearts; how we approach life width in our hearts. And so, when we look at the Law of Karma, the traditional concept of God commanding us to do certain things, and the Law of Attraction and Repulsion together, we see that a Universe wants us to succeed. The Universe is like God’s house – God created this house, and within that house there’s like a factory, it’s like a machine, it does certain things in certain ways, and it’s hyper-intelligent. And so God created this Universe; God created the Universe with the intention of you expanding, growing, evolving, healing, learning, growing, becoming more like Him, becoming more Divine in your own expression, and that created force creating that Universe within the Universe it’s – imagine that you’ve got signed to a record label that had this huge budget; that saw that you could have an awesome album, and wanted to invest in you being in the best shape in your life; and they got you this awesome gym; they got you the best vocal coach; they got you the best dental work; they got you the best hair; they got you everything you needed to be the best of the best, of the best – that’s what God has already done in the Universe. The Universe is already designed for you to refine and become the best, most extraordinary expression of divinity through your filter of incarnation. So it’s like this notion that we’re not punished for our sin – sin is an error; sin is like a glitch; sin is a problem (that’s what that means) it means that you’ve missed the target in archery (that’s what Marianne Williamson always says) so you miss the target; you’re out of perfect alignment; so a sin has taken place, and Karma is that barricade like you said; and you’re punished by your sin, not by God for your sin. The sin itself is what throws you off your game.

[25:11] Sahara:
Right! I think that in kind of the modern Christianity (and I might be wrong) but maybe they felt the need to personify it a little bit more, so when you commit the sin then it’s like God’s who’s involved, where it’s actually you creating that energy.

[25:25] Ben:
Right! And I think a part of that is allegorical. God created this Universe so indirectly; God’s Universe is “what goes up must come down” Universe; and then our free will within that, allows us to throw something in the air that’s going to blow up on our faces – like throw a water balloon straight up in the air that’s going to land right back on our heads. It’s more than anything about the purity of our hearts. Like in the Egyptian tradition, when you die the Goddess Ma’at has scale – my friend Jennifer Sadini told me about this when we were in Egypt – the Goddess Ma’at greets you at the after light and puts your heart on one end of the scale and a feather on the other, and the purity of your soul is based on the levity of your heart – do I have peace in my heart?

[26:18] Sahara:
So beautifully said!

[26:18] Ben:
And so that’s connecting to the Divine. I don’t need to wait for Karma to know, because I feel it in my heart.

[26:26] Sahara:
Yes! And it’s not waiting until it has to be this in your face collision of “I can’t move forward anymore” but the more you get in touch with that subtlety then you feel “Oh, something feels a little bit off, I don’t know what it is” so you redirect – before you had no choice but to face that thing.

[26:42] Ben:
Yes! Exactly! It’s like choosing your rock bottom – “Do I decide to get my finances in order when I have $5000 in my account or do I decide to get my finances in order when I have -$8000 on my card and $65 in my checking account, nothing in savings, credit cards racked up” – where’s your rock bottom?

[27:03] Sahara:
Exactly! And some people, at first, they need the rock bottom (whatever it is for them) to make that shift. Even Eckhart Tolle had to reach his rock bottom of suicidal ideation and now look at who he is, but now he doesn’t have to get to that point anymore.
So, I want to talk a little bit more about the concept of Free Will. I think it’s something really hard because we’re trying to find our balance of “How much is my destiny meant to be that the miracle that’s meant to happen for me; and then how much of it is my creation, my manifestation?” And you shared with me a beautiful concept of ‘Miracles vs Magic’ which I’d love you go deeper into.

[27:41] Ben:
Yeah, definitely! So, the idea of Free Will, Destiny, the juxtaposition there, is that there’s an opportunity and that opportunity is the Destiny. And that is the highest expression of what your uniqueness can become in the context of your surrounding circumstances.
So Destiny does look different because we’re co-creating this Universe, it looks different over time because of all of the different decisions that we make. Our entire Universe is different because Marianne Williamson ran for President, that’s kind of a funny example, but everything has changed now within that field because of that. And so that was a Free Will move that she made that changed and tweaked a destiny potential, for not only her, but for other people.
So, Free Will is our divine ability to create. In the beginning God created, it’s the beginning of Geneses in the Torah. It says “In the beginning God created” – the first adjective, the first movement, the first anything associated to God is that He creates. And I say ‘He’ but really I mean something that transcends the notion of gender. And the reason we say ‘He’ or ‘She’ for me is to remind ourselves that it’s not an ‘It’ – that it lives, and we can have a relationship with her. And sometime I call God “She who was before all else ever became. She who was (for short).” She who was, and is, and always will be; the Fertile Universe; the Livingness. And sometimes when we talk about male God versus female God – I was raised in a kind of Christianity that believes in a Goddess, a Great Mother – and that’s a little on the unusual side, I’m grateful, but that’s my original conditioning, baby. And so, the Heavenly Mother (we call Her) has different qualities than the Father and they do different things, and it’s the masculine and the feminine, and it’s like the Spirit and the Universe; it’s like the Spirit and the Material Universe; the Life and the Vessel; the Seed and the Earth; like the Sun and the Earth (kind of), that kind of idea, the relationship there. And so, the idea is that we’re being trained to become more divine. So, Magic is when we start to learn to apply universal forces. And so, Magic is a science. Magic, before we started to separate it from science, was science – Science, Magic, Alchemy were all the same study. And so, and Magic is an ancient tradition, it’s an ancient lineage (if you’re curious about that, Elphias Levi’s “Transcendental Magic” is a really great book from the 1800s that outlines ancient magical traditions), but Magic is about applying things for a specific result. So a lot of times when we’re thinking about manifesting something, magic isn’t “Poof, it’ll appear” that’s a symbol for what it is; Sabrina the Teenage Witch is a symbol for Magic is.

[30:49] Sahara:
Even ‘Abracadabra’ – can you share what that means?

[30:51] Ben:
Yeah! ‘Abracadabra’ is an Aramaic expression and it means ‘I create as I speak.’
So, all these things have their place in it all (like you’re saying), but Magic is when you’re applying knowledge to create a certain kind of specific outcome; and a Miracle is surrendering to the highest possibility of the unification.
And so, this is interesting because we’re in the Jewish holiday right now, at the time of this recording, we’re between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, which is the 10 days of Awe (Yom Kippur is on my birthday this year, my 33rd birthday this year). And it’s the Holiest day of the year in the Jewish calendar; it’s the Day of Atonement, and Atonement is coming together, it’s at 1am, and that’s what a Miracle is. It’s coming together with the Divine Purpose, with the highest possibility. And so, an important premise we talk about in the introduction of my book, “The Seven Principles that all the Different Traditions Agree On” – the First Principle is that you’re a child of Divine Origin and that this Universe was built for you. We’ve got to get that as a premise; we’ve got to get that as a premise in our consciousness; as a mass premise in our world view and we’ve got to live from that place because it changes the way we see things. We look around and we say “This is for us” I’m a Divine child, divinely hooked up. I have the Divine hook-up on this Planet, and all this is for us!” And that’s what I liked about Gaby Bernstein’s book, I don’t even know when it came out, I didn’t even read it, but I love her title “The Universe has Your Back.” And thank you, if that’s all you’ve got, is the title, and you meditated on that – Cool! Good message!

[32:35] Sahara:
So, I think a lot of people are struggling with that concept right now, seeing all of the sadness and the atrocities of the world, and then the baseline God is “Well, if there is God, if this Universe is meant for me, how did they let this happen?”

[32:48] Ben:
You know, we have little mind and we have big mind. Little mind is from this body that was born and will one day die; big mind is from before this Earth was ever born, and big mind will live long, long, long after this entire solar system is completely evaporated and no longer existing.
So, big mind is eternal truths. So, we live in a dimension; we live in a temporary experience of human incarnation, and within that temporary experience, our faculties are intentionally limited. And so then, the practice is to purify the vessel as much as possible and entrain it to hear and experience the Divine transmissions (we sinners call them downloads) to purify the self so we can experience those downloads, and then as Jesus said “On Earth as it is in Heaven” we create from the heavenly ideas the dimension of just concept and idea is ‘Heaven’ and we take those divine concepts and ideas and we bring them on Earth and build them like they are in Heaven. So, we build a new dimension, a new planet. So this little temporary incarnation, limited faculties, limited ability to experience the Universe for what it is, are memories wiped. So we go into this world and we have the thing that we need to hear, and we forget that even though there is pain in this world, there is a transcendental experience of eternity beyond that pain. The pain is always temporary; everything in this little world, in this incarnation is temporary. One human lifetime is a shimmer in the cosmic ocean, it’s in and out, and it matters, and it’s powerful, but it’s in and out, and so, don’t be lied to by the world around you; don’t get lost by fear or illusion; these are, they’re tricks and you know what, you’re beyond tricks, you don’t need to be at the effect of lies that we’re seeing around us, even death. Let me tell you, everyone dies, that’s part of it; we want it; death is a cure. And it doesn’t mean we evoke it through suicide, it means that we welcome it when its time comes. So, no matter what, God has your back, even in the moment of death; even in that moment; find peace in your heart now, and remember that in those crucial moments bring it back, then you know what’s going to happen as soon as you start to die, as soon as you know that the life is leaving the body, you find that peace, you reconnect to the peace that you spent your lifetime cultivating, you connect to it right then and it’s yours for eternity, you enter into that heavenly state. And death is a designed part of the plan and it’s good, we need it, it’s a part of the process.
So, even though people are afraid and they’re disagreeing on things, and there’s conspiracy theories and who knows what’s going on, we’ve got to step in our power as individuals and be comfortable saying “There are things that I don’t know, but what I do know is blank, and so I shall blank” and only you can answer that question, only you can fill those blanks.

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[39:21] Sahara:
I mean, I think this concept of death is just so important, we could do an entire Podcast on it, and I think that our fear and our unwillingness to talk about it is what is creating all of the scarcity and the scatteredness because we think that death is an end and death is the worst thing.
A comment that I got from someone was “I’m able to accept death for myself, it’s just when it comes to particularly my children or something like that, I fear so much that something could happen to them that it cripples me in the choices in the stuff that I make.”
So, how can we go about accepting death for the people that we love the most, and especially the people who we feel like aren’t supposed to die yet?

[40:06] Ben:
Right! Well, there’s so much power in that Mother energy that you’re describing right now, those are important faculties and important powers. When we talk about our individual unique powers, that’s one of the things that we’re talking about. A mother has great powers and great authority over her home and over her children. And so, that is one of the great gifts, one of the great divine secrets of motherhood. It’s a leadership power; it’s a leadership gift. And so, there’s something extraordinarily divine about that in and on itself, so that must be honored. So that energy of protecting the children, protecting the young, that is very sacred magic. And I use magic loosely right there, it’s very sacred divine energy potential (not as nice to say as magic). But divine energy potential, it’s a power that women have, and even men have, it’s an archetypal power whether or not you have a womb; whether or not you carry children in the womb, men and women have access to that as a raw energy power, however, there’s nothing like a mom, nothing like it, incarnating in an actual mother. And so we see that we have people that are not supposed to die; we see that we’re supposed to guard them, to protect them, to be a part of them, to fight for them, to stand up for them, to intervene – the power of intervention is divine co-creation; the power of intervention is a creative consultation with the Universe and it’s you saying “You know what?! This is not going to happen right now because I’m here; because my unique experience of expression and consciousness is here. There are a few things that I’m not going to tolerate so I’m going to interact and I’m going to deal with it.” When we feel fear, when we feel anger, when we feel those power emotions, use them baby, use them to get strong, use them to get fit, use them to get things done, use them to accomplish that task, protect that kid. If you want that kid to be protected and that’s the energy that you’re feeling, you get a surge of energy on it, then you know what, get it girl! Lift that car up off the baby, do what you’ve got to do! Get in there, do what you’ve got to do! We talk about lifting the car off the baby, but sometimes you know what it really is? It’s making sure the baby’s clean every day, and making sure the baby’s fed, and it sometimes doesn’t look of feel as dramatic as stopping a train to save a baby, but you know what, every day – you and I were little kids not that long ago Sahara, we remember what people said to us, we remember what they did, and look at us now.
You know what people told me when I was a kid? “He’s a star!” “Oh, he’s going to be a star!” “Oh, you’re so funny! You’re funnier than Jim Carrey! You’re going to be a star!” And that gave me energy; that gave me life. So the things that we say, the things that we do, it’s there because it’s part of it, it’s all part of it. Life, a healthy nutrition, living a long, happy life, that’s part of learning the laws and the rules of this world. In, of course, “Miracles” it says there is a limit which beyond which you cannot miscreate” which means there’s a limit, you can make all kinds of mistakes, but there’s a limit and it will cut you off; something will happen and your body will not work anymore. There’s a limit which beyond your mistakes cannot continue, and so, your life will stop.

[43:40] Sahara:
I loved what you said so much! I literally, I’m going to go back and re-listen to it, there’s so much power in it, and so true. And I think that to come with that energy as spiritual creation, the anger, the justness, whatever it is, I feel like we’re in this like very naïve state with spirituality that we just take one concept, and like this must be true for every single thing, and the deeper you get into it that you realize that just all of the textures within it, and sometimes it is like not showing up for your meditation practice because you have to take care of your kids and do all of these things, and you’re kicking yourself “I must not be spiritual” but this is actually serving the highest spiritual principle.” And I think this really, especially for the moms listening or the people out there who might be afraid of becoming mothers because of “Oh what will happen to me if I lose all my spiritual practice? I won’t be spiritual anymore to just remember!” And again, it reminded me of the Goddess Sekhmet, the Egyptian Goddess, the Lioness; her power and her wisdom was her sacred anger and she was using the law of Ma’at to justice, to slay those that were not practicing that, and that’s a Goddess to be revered. So we just sort of haven’t spoken about that that much in our Western society because we’re again so new to more spiritual concepts that go outside of the books that we were given that we realizing these “unspiritual” things really still have these underlying spiritual principles.

[45:10] Ben:
Absolutely! And I think that’s like the impulse and purpose of the new book “Modern Spirituality” is that it’s an attempt to articulate a new way of approaching spirituality that does not need to cut us off from the power and the potency of our lineage. There is authority in your lineage – I have spiritual and metaphysical authority in my lineage; you have spiritual and metaphysical authority in your lineage. And it’s not just who you were formally trained to, it’s your blood line, it’s the first conditioning you got, it’s what you were taught as a young child.
And so, what I describe in the book about this movement – it’s not about a renunciation of our old traditions, but a metaphysical reconciliation with them. We’ve got to metaphysically reconcile what’s really true about them and find the truths, and be okay with our ancestors not being perfect, get okay with not all of it matching up for today’s world, because someone else, another tradition, has the different facets to that diamond that create a more complete experience of spirituality where all the traditions can be honored, like “Namaste” we don’t need to tear anyone off the map, what we do have to do is purify them.

[46:33] Sahara:
I love this word ‘purification’ because I think that the way that spirituality is going is this water energy of bringing everything together.

[46:42] Ben:
Kapha, baby! Kapha, Kapha.

[46:45] Sahara:
Yeah, but I think we have this fear of “What if it’s watered down?” That’s the worst thing “We can’t let this be watered down. We have to do it exactly the way that it’s been done otherwise it’s not going to be as true and traditional etc.” But what I’m seeing inside this new wave that we’re all kind of experiencing is the melding of them all; and to see Quan Yin and Mother Mary, and Yemaya, all under one fabric and the beauty in being able to quote the Vedas, and then quote the Bible, and then talk about the Jewish traditions, and talk about this, and it doesn’t have to just be one, I do think some people’s Dharma is to very much stick with their lineage; some people’s is to shift to an entire new lineage, they may become completely Buddhist, and that’s their way, but I would say, what I’m again, based on my perception of what I’m seeing with hundreds of thousands of people online that I’m interacting with, is people want to take what works for them, they don’t want to just subscribe to something, and maybe if they don’t agree with it, they kind of suck up to it; they want to have a system that’s true to them and that often times does not just come from one system.

[47:55] Ben:
Right! And I think that the, in the tradition that I was raised in, it was a new system, it’s a new tradition based on old tradition. The church that I was raised is The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints, the Mormon Church, is based on the Free Mason tradition and The Bible. So it’s based on the ancient traditions but it is its own expression (it’s a new thing). So, within that, there’s a mutation, and I was really grateful to have this learning where we were taught an expression of continuity of revelation – more will be revealed – that is always true, that will continue to be true – more will be revealed. And within all of these different individual paths and everything, there is a great gift, and to know that gift is – it’s like to fall in love with somebody. You have to intimately relate to that tradition, to that culture, to those people in order to understand those things. So, I agree that there is a melding, and I also think that some of us have circumstantial proclivities towards certain practices and certain techniques.
Another expression that I was raised in is, about sort of like the work of a Saint, we were raised to all be Saints, that was the idea of Latter-day Saints (to be initiated and raised to become a Saint). So the idea is the role of the Saint to the world is to teach correct principles so that people may govern themselves. So it’s not to control anyone ever, it’s that if we can get to the same page about the principles, then self-governance, total free will, total individuality – and of course in “Miracles” they say the path is highly individualized. So if we know the principles of Universal laws like the Law of Attraction and Repulsion; another law that I address in the book is The Law of Consecration (to consecrate something is to make something holy or sacred). And the Law of Consecration states that everything in the Universe is sacred; everything in the Universe belongs to God. And as a daughter of God, you are heir to everything in the Universe; as a son of God, so am I, so we’ve got to share assets. And so the principle there is that everything is shared – The Law of Consecration is a bold statement against the notion of separation and ownership.

[50:20] Sahara:
Got it! I love that so much! And it really, what it means to me in my lens is if each person raises their own consciousness, they won’t need a person telling them what to do; they’ll be able to assess it for themselves.
And I even think that in Shia (the sect of Islam) it’s the same thing of not directly taking it from the Qur’an but having an Imam (who’s more of a translator of it). So, I’m wondering, maybe more in Sufi tradition it’s more of that direct experience.
So, it’s even like all of these totally different religions are having the same realization that we can’t live waiting for someone else telling us what to do, it needs to come from our direct knowing, our knowsis, right?

[51:05] Ben:
Aha, Aha! And there’s this concept of the Exoteric tradition and the Esoteric tradition. The Exoteric tradition is what the public has been taught for generations. The Esoteric tradition is the more advanced study that someone chooses to walk into the path of the priest; the path of the nun; the path of the sage etc. So, going into those, Esoteric traditions – what do we find? We find they get along. The Esoteric traditions – look, we see the Dalai Lama and the Pope together more than we see Catholics and Buddhists together. So at the tippy, tippy top, the Esoteric, the hidden inner teachings reveal more nuanced wisdom than the Exoteric. First we say “Kid! Don’t touch the stove, it’s hot! Don’t touch!” that’s the Exoteric “Don’t touch!” The Esoteric says “Look, this is how you control the knob; this is how you turn the heat up; this is how you turn the heat down; this is how you use that flame to cook a meal” that’s the Esoteric. The Esoteric is “Look, let me tell you what you’re dealing with; you’re dealing with the flame; let me tell you how to work with that flame.” Exoteric is “Look, guys, that’s really hot, don’t touch it!” So you start somewhere, and we’re really blessed to be in a generation of Internet, technology sharing, free discussion in a really beautiful moment right now, lots of availability of books and pdf’s of all books and things like that that were very hard to find at other times; so many more of us are self-initiating into the Esoteric tradition.
So the principle that I’m trying to sort of fulfill with my own Dharma is this notion of a new world relationship to religion where we say “Yes” and “This”; where we say “I love that, this is how I see it, interesting!” Where we’re looking with a sort of positivity bias, so that we can give each other the benefit of the doubt, culturally and socially of course. We could easily have a conversation about politics right now with the bipolarity of a two-party system. Unless you’re totally at lower level of consciousness where you’re completely swept up and indoctrinated, then you don’t actually like what’s going on.

[53:19] Sahara:
Right! For sure! And I think for most people listening to this Podcast and I’ve spoken about the duality of it, to have realized this.
So, I would love for you to answer this question because I think it’s one that we’ve all struggled with of – let’s say you want an outcome “I want to manifest this new house” how much of it should I be doing my rituals, making my vision board, doing my practices, putting out into the Universe, doing my magic, and how much of it should I just let the miracle happen, see if it ends up in my possession or not?

[53:51] Ben:
Well I think that, for me, the way I see it is the material world is so, so, so seductive, and mansions, and beach houses, and Ferraris are so, so, so sexy, and I totally get it, and I’m a Libra, I totally get it. And sometimes we have families and those families deserve to live in great houses, and so it’s not always about luxury, sometimes it’s really about “Look, you’ve got your three kids, they deserve to live in a 4-bedroom home” that’s a cool thing that we should be able to give them.
So the thing is, not every life is going to look the same, not everything that we try to manifest are we going to get, not everything that we think that we want to manifest really is what we want. The whole principle with seeking the miracle is saying “You know what, I’m acknowledging that the Universe has a great plan and that I am loved and I’m a part of that plan; and I’ve got a need (and ugh, sometimes it’s a need)” and you say “Look, this is the need and you put it on the altar. And what that means is you put it in that creative infinite potential space, in a gap, in our consciousness, deeper than the mind, and you put it on the altar so that it can be altered, so it can mutate, so it can become something. And sometimes that alteration mutates into a home; and sometimes it mutates into a new shifting, another thing, and the thing is, a miracle is a recalibration to make things right, magic is “I want the specific thing.” So it’s not a bad thing to want specific things, but it does create Duca, so to try have an attachment to a specific outcome creates suffering; creates an experience of lack. And so, from a metaphysical perspective, you can say “You know what, I want that” but you’ve got to come back to it right now, and you’ve got to make the apartment you’re living in a home right now – love it up, take good care of it, keep it clean, keep it organized, love it up! You’re not going to manifest out of it until you’ve really, fully saturated yourself in what’s in it. And sometimes the most interesting things do come up, but it’s about the surrender in the heart to say “You know what, some of this, I’m open to seeing how it will play out; some of these details, I’m open to seeing how they will play out!”

[56:15] Sahara:
I love that so much! And yeah, letting the altar, alter itself and transmute and change, and see what happens. And I think it’s a bit difficult for all of us, each situation is so unique, but I think we’ve all experienced something in our lives that we pushed and pushed and pushed for it to happen so it’s created a story “Well if I push hard enough it will happen!”
And then we’ve also had situations that, again, fell into our laps, we didn’t even put any effort towards it, so we’re like “When I surrender it happens” So, we have evidence for both, so it can be really, really hard to know which circumstance this falls under. And I think a lot of us too, if we looked back on all of the things that we were wishing and praying for, they may be things that now we’re grateful for that did not get those things because they would’ve taken us out of alignment.
So how could someone assess the subtlety within myself “Should I try to bring this to my Goddess circle and do some prayer around it or should I just let it happen?” Where is the point to know when to sort of let it go?

[57:14] Ben:
Well, I think that you can always have your Goddess circle be with you in your areas of want…

[57:22] Sahara:
And we did an epic Mary Magdalene circle together.

[57:24] Ben:
Yeah, we did, I was like “Wow, what a rare opportunity to be a man in a Mary Magdalene circle!”

[57:32] Sahara:
Oh, you were like the Mary Magdalene Wizard.

[57:34] Ben:
I was like “Namaste sisters, thank you, thank you, thank you!” I was so happy to be part of that.
Yeah, I think that the idea is, it’s the difference between having a rigid attachment to something and setting an intention. I think that if it matters to you, if it’s on your heart, then it matters to God. So if it matters to you, that means it matters to the Universe because you’re connected to the Universe, you’re part of the Universe you’re part of God, you’re God’s daughter. He cares so much about what you’ve got going on in your heart and so if it matters to you, it matters to God. And so what we have to do is really find within ourselves; we have to hold ourselves to a high standard and say “What about this really matters? Why is it that I want the new Louboutin sneakers? Why do I want those?” Well, is that really what I want? And I start to feel into it and I realize “I wouldn’t turn them down but the Louboutin sneakers is not really what I want!” When I really, really go there in my heart, I’ve got great shoes, I’ve already got great shoes, I’ve had great shoes forever, what I really, really, really want is to be with people who love and respect me; what I really, really want is to see evidence in the world around me that things are getting better; what I really, really want is to feel healthy; to make love with someone who’s going to love me back; what I really, really want is not the Louboutin shoes, the hole is much bigger than a pair of shoes. Even though the hole in your bank account that it might make is pretty big; the hole is not in the shoes. So when we want something I think that it’s important to find out what that is. I remember when you and I were doing that circle with our friends and I said something about wanting, it was so silly – that day my publisher was like “You’ve got to get more Amazon reviews, you’ve to 360 and we’ve got to get that up to 1000” or whatever, and I was like “I want 1000 Amazon reviews!” And then you were like “Huh?! 10.000 Amazon reviews?! Huh?!” Do you remember that?

[59:44] Sahara:
I remember we were like “We want millions of dollars!”

[59:47] Ben:
Yeah, and we just went for it! And the thing is, I think we can have those moments when we’re like “Abundance and success and health” and really, really build that energy up. But you know what, I don’t have some of those things yet, it doesn’t mean I don’t believe they can come, it doesn’t mean I don’t believe that they are coming. I’ve got all kinds of wonderful things that have happened that I never asked for. And so, I think it’s all good. It’s good to say “Look, I’ve got these goals, I’m working towards them” but don’t let it worry your heart if you don’t have it.

[1:00:22] Sahara:
Yes! And I think often times we’re kind of taught that if you believe you’re worthy of something, it will naturally manifest. And I personally don’t find that to be that one indicator, I think that that is a part of it to believe you’re worthy, but there are many things that I’m worthy of that I don’t have and I don’t need. They’re not part of my path, it’s not like everything that I am automatically at the level of worthiness from is in my life, and if not, those are the things not in my life. Personally, I don’t want Louboutin sneakers, I’m worthy of them, I don’t want them. It’s not like someone’s going to mail them to me like “You’ve reached that level.”
So, I think realizing that and again, going back to destiny, that was is meant for you; what are those breadcrumbs that are taking you to your unique purpose, will find their way to you. And you may have your inclinations of what that thing will be, and those are probably what most of your desires are. However, sometimes you’re in that Karma zone too and sometimes “I just want my ex to take me back” and it’s like you want to feel loved again.
Let me just tap a little bit into the concept of Black Magic, because sometimes people are doing magic rituals, etc. around another person and kind of interfering with that person’s Dharma etc. for example, for me and my ex to get back together, well it actually might not be in the highest good for yourself or your ex.
So, what are the ways that we can know how we can manifest when other people are involved?


[1:01:50] Ben:
The number one most important thing to realize when you’re talking about any kind of manifesting or any kind of ritual is that the magic that you’re doing is on your own brain, you’re doing it on you. All magical ceremonies are based on a principle called ‘Sympathetic Magic’ which is a concept of a resonance, harmony. It’s based on the principle of The Law of Attraction and Repulsion.
And so, the idea is that we do a magic ceremony together and we come together and we have the right colored candles, the right oils, the right, the right flowers, the right symbols, the right tarot cards, whatever it is; it’s under the right moon, at the right time of year with the right people, at the right time of day, right nature location, whatever it is – we do all the right things, we do it just right, and it’s to get you in the mood; it’s to seduce your own nervous system into being like “Oh yeah, you got this baby! This is what it’s about! This is what we’re looking for!” So you can go out in the world and be smart, make smart decisions according to that. If you want to manifest a house, guess what – let’s talk about your credit score; let’s talk about your proof of income; let’s talk about where do you actually want to live, what’s the important thing; but first and foremost, what was my first thing? – What’s your credit score babe? If you want a mortgage, let’s talk about your credit score, that’s how we manifest a house. We look at our credit score, we look at our proof of income, we look at the reality of what we’re experiencing, and from that place, that magic ceremony that we do is going to help us get into the mood for that, so check it out.
I’m going to tell you one person you’re going to harm by trying to get your ex back through magic – you! You’re going to destroy your own brain, and this is what they call ‘obsession.’ In magic there’s a concept of Obsession versus Possession. When you’re possessed by a concept it means that you’re acting something out; you’re acting out a dynamic. And when you’re possessed by good concepts, by good archetypal energies, we sometimes say we’re channeling something – we’re channeling that Goddess; we’re channeling Jesus; we’re channeling Mary Magdalene; we’re channeling Saraswati or Quan Yin, or whatever it is – that’s akin to possession, we’re allowing the Christ to move through us; we’re allowing Quan Yin to move through us.
Obsession is when there’s an entity that is not moving through us, but we seek to put our energy around, and so we become obsessed. And it causes a dysfunctional energy dynamic in our field where it causes us to see the world through a distortion. That person is not the one that’s most affected by it, you’re affected by it. And so, then now, even though that person may have said “Look, this relationship is a 100% over, I don’t want to do this ever again, this is bad in all kinds of ways, goodbye” that person has now ghosted you; you’ve now done the magic ritual to get them to come back. Now, you are delusionally going to be seeking and finding evidence of that magical ritual. And so, therefore, that tweet that he posted about that was actually about me; oh that TikTok he did is me; oh, he’s in love with me, he’s seeking out!
And so, Black Magic refers to doing something out of ignorance; Black, in this context, means that you see what’s up, you’re making a mistake, it’s based on a fundamental delusion.
And so, one of the core universal principles that is relevant to magic is ‘Unity Consciousness’ – this is one world, all of us are connected, we are all connected, but you are in charge of you. So it’s the sense of proportion within unity consciousness, so, magic is about us getting in the zone; us getting in the game. Aphrodisiacs are really about us getting in the mood together, it’s not about me getting in the mood without you; that comes in a play. You know what a good time to do that is? Married couple; woman, man, one of them isn’t as sexually aroused or into the other one and it’s negatively affecting the relationship. One of you could stand to sit there and do a magical little meditation prayer about how much you love that person, do a “love spell” for that person and get into that love zone so that you can with them. It’s not about getting someone who doesn’t love you, doesn’t want you, to change their free will or their universe or whatever.


[1:06:29] Sahara:
So, by the sounds of it, do you think it is the magic that’s working or it’s just the fact that we took the time to set an intention?

[1:06:38] Ben:
No, I don’t think there’s a separation between magic or an intention. I think there is no such thing as a private thought. So, you think a thought; you feel a feeling; it does go out into the world; you are your number one responsibility; you’re the Goddess of the Universe of your organs and all the cells in your body; you’re a very important Goddess to all those living beings; every cell in your body; taking great care of your body; self-care; getting into a healthy energy place emotionally and psychologically with yourself is a very, very important thing that we need to do. You’re of course going to feel better and your body is going to be healthier, but you’re also going to show up a better, pure expression of yourself out in the world.

[1:07:25] Sahara:
Yes! I realized for myself when I first started to learn about so many of these rituals years ago, I was like “Okay, I’ve got to do the money tree; and the thing and the money tree; and the this and the that” and it was definitely a lot of fun for me but then it almost became like I kind of felt the need to do all of these things so I was sort of realizing that my life was still dramatically moving forward in the direction that I wanted to and it wasn’t a direct correlation with how many rituals I did.
So now, for me, a ritual, I’m so excited for your birthday, we’re going to do some rituals and it’s such a fun thing for me to do, but I’m not like “Oh, this thing happened, we’ve got to do a ritual for that” and some people are like that. And again, that’s a part of their Dharma, they might be a ceremonialist or whatever, but for me, it feels like just my beingness in that crystal and that is enough of a momentum.

[1:08:16] Ben:
Yes! You know, like we talked about with my birthday, we’re going to have fun, we’re going to get magic, we’re going to go there. But really it is about what’s going on in our minds, every moment – in my book I talk about something that I refer to as the ‘Akashic Theater’ – imagine that this moment right now, there are trillions of entities watching you and they are, through time and space, they’re entities from the future, looking at you right now through the Akaschic Records, and this moment is a moment in the distant past that they’re watching – that’s the concept of the Akashic Records, that everything that’s ever taking place leaves an imprint that can be accessible. And so, the concept if the Akashic Theater, it’s every moment is a performance of a ceremony; every moment is a ritual. My decision to be loving to this person is more powerful of a ritual than me sitting in a circle of rose courts lighting rose petals, and then being really, really impatient with them.

[1:09:17] Sahara:
“Ben, I’m going to do my ritual, shut up! It’s a love spell for you!”

[1:09:21] Ben:
“Babe, this is for you, okay!? Back up!”

[1:09:24] Sahara:
“I care! I bought these rose courts to make it work!”


[1:09:28] Ben:
Yeas, exactly, exactly! But you just being loving is going to be more powerful than all of the incantations or rituals you could create.

[1:09:37] Sahara:
One hundred percent! Such a great conversation! Could speak with you for hours!

So, where can listeners get your new book “Modern Spirituality”; your other two books that also came out this year; and just learn from you; meditate with you even further?

[1:09:51] Ben:
Well yeah, like you mentioned I’ve got four books, they do outline sort of a related curriculum and they are available everywhere books are sold. My book “Modern Spirituality” is brand new, so it’s coming out right now, at the time of this recording, it’s in a pre-order phase, might be out by the time this actually airs. So, Amazon, Barns and Noble, anywhere books are sold.

And I think the best way to interact with me, the least commercial, most intimate way to you can interact with me is Instagram. I use it, no one else does it for me, which is not true about all the other ones, someone else everything else. So for me Instagram – @benjaminwdecker there’s a lot of Ben Deckers in the world – I’m Benjamin W Decker, and we’ll hang out on Instagram.

I teach classes periodically, I do courses and that type of thing; work a lot with individual clients; and teach holistic curriculum that uses all four of my books, so let’s hang out if any of this is interesting.

[1:10:50] Sahara:
Incredible! And I’ll have those links in the show notes.

Well thank you so much for dropping so many beautiful wisdom bombs and truth nuggets, it was so beautiful to receive and I’m feeling more inspired than ever before.

[1:11:02] Ben:
You’re awesome! So happy to be here Sahara, thank you, thank you!

[1:11:05] End of Interview

[1:11:06] Sahara:
How great was that conversation with Ben?! He is someone who is so knowledgeable about so many different spiritual traditions, so, I loved having him on just to drop some wisdom ampanas and allow us to dive into our own spiritual journeys; our own forms of modalities that we seek to merge together at this moment of time; and also allow it to change as we change and shift. And also, really like the concept of letting what is meant to be happen and having a clear sense of what you want, and I think that balance is really important. Especially as we learn about spirituality we can kind of go from one extreme like “If I can’t break down a door, I’m going to stomp down this door” to “I’m just going to allow whatever happen, happen” and we need the balance of the two.
So, really appreciated that conversation and be sure to check out his new book “Modern Spirituality” which is such a great intro to all of these different concepts, especially for someone who is a bit curious about spirituality and wants to really understand it from a historical level as well. I really love his book!

[1:12:10] Sahara:
So, be sure to join us in Rose Gold Goddesses, we have our next Goddess Circle coming up in just a week from now. We are also going to be doing a Samhain ritual – Samhain is the original Halloween, so it’s actually the day of the ancestors. It’s a pagan holiday, similar to the Dia de Muertos which is on November 1st, it’s kind of incredible how collectively, around the world they recognize that this day, this time of the year is the time that the veil between the world and the ancestors is very thin.
So, in Rose Gold Goddesses we are going to, on Halloween, be doing a Samhain ritual virtually, and then on November 1st be doing our Rose Gold Goddesses November circle, introducing our new Goddess archetype for this month.
And of course, when you join you’ll have access to everything that we’ve done so far; all of our rituals, all of our circles, workshops, masterclasses, everything, when you join us in Rose Gold Goddesses. You can find out more on rosegoldgoddesses.com the link is in the show notes and I’m soul excited to meet you inside.

If you loved this Episode, I would love to send you a free gift which is the first half of my unreleased book “Eat Right for Your Mind Body Type“. This is a different book than “Eat Feel Fresh“. My first book ever which is not released anywhere, and I am gifting it exclusively to those who leave a review of my Podcast in the iTunes store. So all you’ve got to do is head over to iTunes where you’re maybe listening to this Podcast and leave a review, take a screenshot that you’ve left it and email it over to me at [email protected] and I will send you back the first half of my unreleased book “Eat Right for Your Mind Body Type“, which goes all into Ayurveda, Doshas, Plant-Based Nutrition, Body Types – all of the things in a really fun and engaging way. So this is my gift to you for free for supporting the Podcast. Every single review I personally read. It really helps the Podcast be listened to by more people so we can raise the vibration of the planet together, and I am soul grateful to have you on this journey.

Thank you so much for listening and I’ll see you on the next Episode. Namaste.

Episode 324: Miracles vs Magick in Modern Spirituality with Benjamin Decker
By Sahara Rose



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