Did you know that creativity and sexuality are both related to your life force energy? In this episode, I sit down with renowned poet Adam Roa to discuss the creative process. He shares his 4 step approach to creativity and how we can overcome the fear of vulnerability in sharing our story. We then dive into his lessons learned from a 10-year relationship break-up and going to sex camp and how our shame of sexuality keeps us hidden in our creativity. We then discuss some real talk about relationships between spiritual women and men and why sometimes they don’t work. We talk about polyamory and how to know whether it’s right for you. He also shares two powerful poems for us on self love and lessons learned in love. Get ready for a heart-opening and creative boosting conversation!

Connect with Adam at adamroa.com

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Intro + Outro Music: Silent Ganges by Maneesh de Moor

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TRANSCRIPTION

Episode 430: How Creativity is Related to Sexuality, Sharing Your Story + Conscious Relationships with Adam Roa
By Sahara Rose

[00:12] Sahara
Namaste, it’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to The Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes You, Your Soul’s Highest Evolvement.

[00:19] Sahara
If it’s your first time listening, welcome! I am so deeply grateful to have you here! And if you’re here all the time, then welcome back to another juicy Episode.

[00:27] Sahara
If you aren’t aware, I am actually recording all of these in video at the same time, and including the intros now, so you can actually watch the full video on Spotify or on YouTube, which I highly recommend so you can get the full experience, we can be looking at and eye-to-eye, connecting, and for you to feel Adam’s poems that he’s going to be sharing with us on the Episode.

[00:48] Sahara
So, I’ve known Adam for a couple years, from really his poetry. He is an incredible spoken word artist, and one of his poems has gone extremely viral around the world, over 200 million plays, and it’s about self-love.

[01:01] Sahara
So, in this conversation, we dive into the realm of creativity and how it relates to sexuality, to self-love, to relationships, and so much more.

[01:11] Sahara
He shares with us his creative process, he has a four-step process on how to really inlock your creativity. And I also ask him how to overcome different fears that we may have.

[01:22] Sahara
For myself, in Dharma Coaching Institute, coaching hundreds of students in becoming Certified Spiritual Life Coaches, I see that the missing thing that’s holding so many of us back is “Well, I don’t want to share my story” or “I feel like my story is not interesting” or “I don’t know how to share my story” or “Can I not share it?”
So, we really talk about the importance of vulnerability and how this can help, really, give life to your story and why it is a necessary piece of the puzzle.

[01:50] Sahara
So, all the creative things, we really break down in the first half of the Episode. Then we move into the sexuality and relationship realm, where we speak about open relationships and polyamory and his thoughts on it, what to do if someone you’re interested in is polyamorous, but it’s not feeling right for you, is it coming from a fear, should you move into it? We discuss both of our perspectives on this. We also dive into sexual shame and trauma and how that can be holding us back.
He shares his experience going to sex camp and what that was like for him, also opening up into his creativity. We really dive into how our relationships are catalysts for our spiritual growth, but then we also talk about how often, in the spiritual community, he opens up that sometimes, spiritual manner like “I’m sick of dating spiritual women”, and I share how sometimes spiritual women are like “I’m sick of dating spiritual men”, and where does this come from and what is the thing, and how relationships are all so different. Like, some relationships do more processing, for some people that’s extremely weird, and all the perspectives in between that.
So, if creativity and sexuality, relationships, poetry, artistry, are your things, you are going to love this conversation! And I’m so excited to share it with you! Sharing your voice is such an important part of living your Dharma, your soul’s purpose, which is really my mission here, to activate our soul’s purposes and we can’t do so without opening up that throat chakra and allowing ourselves to speak our stories, our visions, our messages, to share those lessons learned to other people. And there really is such a gift and an art in that, that I also share in my Speak With Soul course.

[03:33] Sahara
So, if you are interested in diving deeper into this journey, be sure to head over to speakwithsoul.com for more information about how to speak with soul.

[03:45] Sahara
So, this conversation is going to take you on quite a journey, be sure to have an open heart, take a deep breath, and we’re actually going to begin this conversation with one of his beautiful poems, the poem that I mentioned, about self-love.
So, I invite you to just take a moment, to drop in, to take a deep breath, receive the poem, and that’s really going to allow us to sit into the vibrational field of receiving before this conversation begins.

[04:13] Sahara
So, let’s take a deep breath together now, and without further ado, let’s welcome Adam Roa on The Highest Self Podcast.

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[05:28 ] Interview

[05:28] Adam – poem
You are who you’ve been looking for.
So, stop looking for more, unless you’re looking in a mirror
Because it’s about time for you to see clearly that you are who you’ve been looking for.
And that empty feeling you’ve got,
That hole in your chest,
You only got that feeling because you think you’re not blessed with everything you need.
You see, we live in a consumerist society, which means they need you to buy stuff,
And the easiest way to sell it is to tell you you’re not enough.
“Buy this car, you’ll get girls”, “Buy this bra, you’ll get guys”,
And we’re seeing it so much that we start believing these lies,
But the truth is, the make-up they’re selling to make you feel prettier is the same make-up you buy to stop feeling shittier about this lie they keep telling you that you are not enough.
What about the movies we watch? All the shows on TV?
The more I watch, the more I need you to complete me. Huh.
And yes, love is the answer, love is the key,
But if you can’t love yourself, how can you ever love me?
And loving yourself, what does that even mean?
Like, massages and selfies, and that sort of thing?
Because the more I think about it, the more it feels weird.
I’ve always thought self-love was something to be feared.
I’ve been taught that arrogance is bad, and vanity, it’s not good,
And even my bracelets are telling me to act how Jesus would,
So, what should I do? How should I act?
I’m supposed to love myself, but how do I even do that?
Well, I got a trick that I picked up from a friend who noticed that I was quick to defend her, when she would say something negative about herself.
She’d say “I’m so dumb”, and I’d say “You’re so brilliant!”
She’d say “I’m so weak”, and I’d say “You’re so resilient”.
And when she said “I feel ugly” and I said “You look beautiful”,
She asked me “Why?”, I was so dutifully filling up her cup, constantly,
And yet, treating my own cup so irresponsibly.
Because when I looked in the mirror my voice was quite clear “You’re ugly, you’re too thin, your hairline is receding and you’ve got a pimple on your chin!”
And that was when she gave me a piece of advice that changed my life.
She gave me a hug and she said “Treat yourself like someone you love”.
“Treat yourself like someone you love”.
And now, I’d been standing, but I needed to be sitting because I couldn’t believe that I had been letting myself keep forgetting that I was who I’d been looking for.
And deep in my core, I knew it was time to stop looking for more until I could look through all my fear and look into a mirror and see clearly that the man, looking back at me is the only one who can make me happy and I am already enough.
And I’m not any more special or unique than you,
That’s why I’m here to speak to you.
You are already enough.
And when you start to see that, you will start to be that.
Your world will get brighter. Your load will get lighter,
And you can see that with life, you can be a lover, not a fighter,
And that life, you deserve it, because you are worth it.
And there’s no point in letting yourself keep forgetting because no matter what you say or do,
You are perfect.
And so, today, I hope I leave you with the direction-correction.
A way from the flaws you see in your reflection.
They aren’t your flaws. To me, they are simply protection against all the doubts you have, of your perfection.
So, start today. Take a good, long look in the mirror and say “I am who I’ve been looking for.”

[09:00] Sahara
Welcome Adam, to The Highest Self Podcast, it’s so great to have you here!

[09:05] Adam
I am excited! Thank you for having me, Sahara!

[09:07] Sahara
The first question I’d love to ask you is what makes you your highest self?

[09:11] Adam
Play. I think that play, and the reason why I say play is because play requires creativity, and I believe that our creative energy is the pierce expression of our soul.
And so, when we are actually expressing our creativity, we’re expressing our soul into the world, and when it’s in the spirit of play, it just amplifies where there’s not necessarily the attachments to results or anything like that, it’s just for the sake of doing.

[09:41] Sahara
I love that so much! And I feel like we both connect, that we’re like sacral chakra people, so we’re like creativity, sensuality, expression and play.
So, can you speak a little bit how these energies, and abundance, are all, kind of interconnected energies, creative energies, sexual energy, play energy?

[10:01] Adam
Yeah. So, essentially, creative energy and sexual energy are lifeforce energy, they’re different expressions of lifeforce energy.
If you think about creation, from a sexual standpoint, you were created from sex, there is sexual energy involved in the creation of most humans.
And when we talk about creative energy, when we talk about that, it is the same as creation. You are creating something, you are birthing something, and yet it is just not in the realm of sexuality.
And so, they both stem from this lifeforce, the lifeforce of all creation, and that energy, when pointed at sex, or sexuality, become sexual energy. But that same spark, when pointed in the direction of creating something that’s not sexual, becomes creative energy.
And I described this in this way as well, because it’s so important to find your turn on in life. What about life, turns you on? And most people hear that and think sex, but what’s the difference between being turned on sexually and being inspired? When you’re creatively inspired, it’s that same energy, it’s that same lifeforce coursing through you, it’s just not pointed at a sexual target.
And so, for me, it’s what is that turn on in life that can fill me up with so much energy that I want to create.

[11:30] Sahara
I love that so much! And you know, I always see us as walking orgasms, like all of us are orgasms and we are our father’s orgasm into our mother and we’re here orgasming our expressions and creativity, and our Dharmas, and it’s all meant to ooze naturally through us, from this place of not like “I’m trying to figure it out” or “In my head”, but rather letting it move through.
So, I would love to know, for yourself, now, as you’re living your Dharma as an artist, as a poet, as someone who is playing and creating, full-time, which, for a lot of listeners, that is such a huge, just, inspiration for them. How do you stay inspired when it’s your work and you have deadlines and ways that you have to then turn it into content, to be seen and understood by other people?

[12:22] Adam
That is a great question and it is a constant balance. To give you an idea, two years ago, at the very start of the pandemic, I launched something called The Create Community, and it was something that was – I’d hired a company to support me in planning my next poetry tour, internationally, 3-month contract etc., and the first two weeks, boom, pandemic! So, everything is shut down! And in that first month, no one knew what happened, I didn’t know if we were in The Walking Dead, if it was the end of the world, no one really had any idea what was going on. And so, I just said “What do people need right now? They need a safe space to come together”, and instead of cancelling that contract, I took all of this fire power from these people and pointed it in the direction of launching this community, which, over the last two years, has been my primary focus. And that had me put on my entrepreneur hat, very heavily. The primary hat I’ve work over the last few years has actually been my entrepreneurial and building a personal development community and all the systems around that, content, etc., etc.
And, going into 2022, my inner artist was screaming, screaming at me and saying “Okay, that’s enough now! Where do I get to play again?”
And I think there is a balance, I’m always asking the question “How do I bring more of my creativity to what I’m doing?” But there are times, there’s seasons. I think, I really do find it to be the balance of the yin-yang energies, the masculine-feminine energies. I believe that the structure of the masculine is incredibly important and valuable, especially as we are living in many ways the structure of the 3D reality that we live in, is masculine, it is linear, it is 1 sec, 2 sec, 3 sec, 4 sec, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. We live in that, sort of, linear structure, which is very masculine. And within that structure of time and linearity, we see creation birthing through that. And that is that feminine energy.
And so, within ourselves, finding that balance of where we can bring our masculine and where we can bring our feminine, and going back and forth and creating from that space. If we don’t find that balance, I believe that we go off and see ourselves, kind of, fall down these rabbit holes of depression or lack of fulfillment or burn out or overwhelm. And it’s just our systems telling us “Hey, how about finding some balance? How about actually finding that center point where you feel equally expressed and cultivated and nourished, in both your masculine and feminine energies.
And I don’t know that I have a secret other than starting with the awareness piece and having the awareness to notice “Wow, my inner artist is screaming right now, and therefore, I get to make some shifts in what I’m doing because it’s time for another season, a different season.”

[15:25] Sahara
I love that so much, and I feel the same way with the different seasons and these different archetypes that live inside of us and your artist is like “Okay, I am one of your, probably your leading archetypes”, so yes, I also have the entrepreneur, and yes, I have my teacher and all these different things, but if my artist doesn’t feel free to express and have the space that it needs – I feel like that’s such a huge thing with creativity of like, when you have these really short deadlines or you just have an hour in between something, to actually allow that channel to open through.
And, at the same time, I know for myself, with my last book, I didn’t have – I was running a business, the exact same thing, I had just launched my membership community, so I didn’t have all the time to just channel my higher thoughts and to break down those beliefs that I had of “I need a full day of nothing in order to create” and just let whatever can come through, come through, at that time, and then continue to evolve and edit and then receive new information from there.

[16:26] Adam
And I do think that few people understand how much space creativity requires. The process of creativity is the process of your mind putting together patterns it’s never put together. So, I describe this, imagine, you know in those movies, it’s like a Mission Impossible 8 and they’re hacking into some bank or something, and they’re always running this program that has this status bar that’s letting them know how close they are to hacking into the system, which, I’m not sure how a status bar lets them know that, but beside the point, as it’s going, what’s it’s doing is, it’s running this algorithm of millions, billions of different potentials, and until it eventually lands on one. That’s the process of creativity, the process of your mind going “Oh, I have this element and this element”, and pulling on past memories and past experiences and thinking of your vocabulary and blah blah blah, and it’s just putting all these things together, until you find a solution, or you find an idea, or you find the next step of your project. And imagine, now, you’re trying to hack into that bank and you have 18 open tabs on the laptop that’s running that hacking program, the processing speed slows down tremendously. So, it’s not that you can’t be creative, it’s just going to be far less effective, far less efficient, and take a lot longer.
I know for myself, it’s very difficult for me to go from 3 hours of Zoom meetings with my teams and being in my CEO mode, and then say “Okay, I have this 2-hour block, let me jump into writing a poem”, it doesn’t work that way, for me or most people that I know. Creativity is not generally something you can fit in to a tiny window. Sometimes it may take 1.5h for me just to get into the mindset where I can get 30 minutes of actual writing done. And then there’s other days where I’ll wake up and I’ll write for 3 hours straight, just boom, boom, boom, and an entire poem can come out.
Learning the process by which you create is one of the most important and powerful things you can do as a creator. Understanding what serves you the most, understanding what key elements are going to be most conducive to you having your creative spark and your creative vision, and learning to feel into whether the creative muse, your inspiration, is present or not. Because there have been so many projects that I think could’ve changed the planet, but people thought the muse left, and so they stopped when they got frustrated, when in reality it was still present, it just required more of that algorithm, hacking-creative space.
And then, there’s been other times where people have tried to force creativity, when the muse has gone, the inspiration’s gone, which means you don’t actually have the elements in your brain to figure it out, you need to go and do something different because your brain is now like “We don’t have the ingredients, go out and watch some movies, go out and listen to some music, go on a hike, go take some mushrooms”, just go about your life and come back to this. And learning to identify the difference between those two is a huge, huge piece of what any creative can gift to themselves.

[19:48] Sahara
I, so, resonate with that, and even like our mediums of creativity changing over time. So, when I started, I really identified as a writer and that was how creativity expressed through me, and then over years of podcasting and creating video content, now I feel my creativity is best used when I’m speaking, it’s just a faster channel for me, that now, in my head I had it “Oh, you’ve got to keep writing book, because that’s what you’re supposed to do and that’s what Deepak Chopra did, so keep writing”, and then I came to this realization of “I’m not expressing my best thoughts through writing anymore, at this stage of my life”, maybe it will come back, maybe it won’t, but just honoring the way that your creativity is seeking to express, and I love that!
So, do you have any tips for, kind of, knowing if the muse is still there and you just need to, kind of, change things up vs. “Okay, give it a break, come back to it later”? Because I see people messing up on both fronts.

[20:43] Adam
Yeah! It’s funny because it always comes back to the body (for me), it always comes back to the body. We could be talking about just about any topic and if you’re wanting to know where to find guidance, come back to the body.
And so, learning how to identify what your creativity feels like, learning to identify what your creative energy feels like, learning to identify what your turn on, your inspiration, feels like. We all know what it feels like to be sexually turned on, but how many people know what it really feels like to be creatively turned on? Like, as a man, what does it feel like to have a creative erection? What is that? And going to that experience, in the body, will be the number one indicator, and there’s no way around this other than practice. The experiences that I had of trying to force my way through something and paid attention to how it feels in my body. And then, there’s times where I’ve wanted to stop and pay attention to how it feels in my body and realizing there’s still something there, I can feel it, there’s still something there, and allowing myself the grace. And then when I realize, after 30 minutes of sitting through that discomfort of feeling blocked, it came through, like “Oh, okay, I was right, there was something there.” And through those reference points we develop a refinement, the same way that we walk through the world, right now, and we talk about intuition, there’s this thing about intuition. Yes, we all have intuition, but how many people recognize that intuition is also a skill, intuition is something that we have, but developing your relationship to your intuition is a skill that can be developed over time and effort, and putting in some attention and intention to that.

[22:34] Sahara
I love that! So, at this point, do you have a creative ritual or practice before you start creating, or is it more, you just let the energy take you when it’s present?

[22:46] Adam
Well, I have an approach to creativity, it’s like a four-step approach to creativity that I can give just the broad strokes of, because it’s something that I’ll teach over the course – I used to teach this in group program, so you can really dive deep into this. But the idea is, that for me, I believe in infinite realities, I believe that there are versions of reality in which I’m the host of this Podcast and we’re switched, and I live in your house and you’re in Costa Rica right now, where I am, and there’s realities in which we’ve never met, there’s realities in which we’ve had this exact conversation with only one word different, infinite possibilities.
And so, when I recognize that those are all beyond time – anyone who’s had experience with past live or whatever, I think your audience are probably into this, and when you’ve had experiences that are quantum, that go beyond linear time and space, when you recognize, okay, time is just the fourth dimension, it’s not just this empirical thing that applies to everything. Beyond time is all of these realities, and I believe that we are pulling those realities through us and taking action upon them as we create them, same as being radio transmitters. We are transmitting a frequency out into the world but we are also receiving a frequency.
And so, if you wanted to create – let’s say I have a poem. If I’m creating a poem, am I pulling from the reality in which that poem never gets finished? Am I pulling from the reality in which that poem is – most people would go “Oh, that’s okay”, or am I pulling from a reality in which that poem goes on to reach 200 million people like “You Are Who You’ve Been Looking For” did?
I think that the ability to do that has been, in recognizing that reality already exists, it’s our job to essentially pull it through, to birth it into this reality. And I equate that to being a garden hose. We are a vessel for creative energy to flow through us and out and water the seed of a creative idea.
And there’s four steps to this: The first is, if you pull a hose out, from the shed, the first thing that anyone who had to water lawns back in the day knows it’s all kinked, it’s all knotted, you have to unkink the hose before anything can flow through it. And that’s the equivalent of all your fears, doubts, limiting beliefs, insecurities, etc., that are in the way of you even being able to receive that creative idea. If you believe that you can’t sing, that you have a terrible singing voice, your ability to receive the idea for a song that wins a Grammy, very low. And so, those limiting beliefs and insecurities get to move through, let’s unkink the hose.
The second step is connect to the tap, connect to the source. And that is what I was talking about earlier, is where are you pulling that from? And this goes into very much Law of Attraction, manifestation stuff, like, what is the feeling in your body, the emotional experience, as you’re creating?
And then the third step is turn up the flow, which is, what are the things that you do, like you just asked about, what are the things that you do to get into a space where it is flowing freely through you, as opposed to just being a few drops at a time? And that can be your eating habits, your exercise habits, that could be the type of media you’re consuming, that can be so many things.
And then the fourth step is spout it out. And this is the equivalent of people with a hose, they could use their thumb on the end of the hose, they can attach a sprinkler to it, or a gun nozzle at the end, what’s the unique way that you want this creative energy leaving you and entering the world? And that goes into your unique story, your unique talents and gifts and skills, all of that.
And so, this is the four-step process how I view creativity. And a result to that, when I go into a creative project, let’s assume it’s a big one, I’m going to be constantly viewing this as “Okay, this is step one, and then I’m at step two, and then I’ve got to go back to step one because it brought up a bunch of stuff, and then I go to step two, and now I’m on step three, argh man, I notice this thing and I’m back to”, you know what I mean? So, I’m aware of where I’m at, at the process, so that I can, kind of, surf the wave. But in terms of actionables that I do, the space is the most important thing and creating the space, energetically, in my body. And so, that might look like, in the morning I wake up and there’s so much stuff on my mind and I want to write a poem or I want to whatever, I need to move my body, I need to move the energy, I need to clear the space so that I can actually receive.
And so, everything that I do is based off of these four steps and the idea that I can’t actually be the vessel for it if I don’t have the space in me. And so, most of my processes, whether it’s listening to music, dancing, journaling, are in the spirit of moving energy out so I have more space.

[27:47] Sahara
So good, and I’m so with you on the moving your body first thing! And I love how you’ve broken it down into these steps.
I think so many of us, we associate creativity with that step three, the flow, of like “Why aren’t I flowing?”, but it’s like have you taken the space first, have you unblocked yourself before that, then, what are you even tapped into? And then you can flow, and then you can add your unique spin to it. So, I love how that’s broken down.
And even as you progress in your creative journey, like you have, it’s like, you keep coming across new blocks and new blocks and you’re like “Oh shit, I did not know about that, that was 9ft in and it’s showing up for me.”
So, I’d love to know about vulnerability because I see a lot of people, what is scary about creating is “Well, do I have to share my story? Can I share that person’s story? Can I talk about something just from a hypothetic sense?” And I know I felt that way too when writing my book “Discover Your Dharma”, I’m like “Can I just write about knowing your Dharma in general, without having to share my story because my parents are involved and all of this”, and it feels like a lot, letting people know just those things that still feel messy and uncertain. I feel like what you really show so beautifully is to lead with that vulnerability, and especially as a man.
So, how can we, especially parts of our stories that we may feel shameful about or embarrassed about, how can we take that and turn that into art?

[29:17] Adam
Well, I believe that the key to understanding is, I actually think that art is a technology. I believe that art is a technology and I believe it is the highest leverage way that we actually shift human consciousness. And the reason why I believe this is because true shifts in human consciousness, and as a person, when you really change something, it has to happen in your emotional body. There is an emotional component that is always associated with a major shift in your consciousness. And sometimes that can be awful, like a total breakdown, ego death experience, and sometimes it can be an experience of oneness or connection or love that’s deeper than you’ve ever felt before, but there is a shift when that happens, emotionally.
And the thing is, that, even as I’m speaking right now, I recognize that everyone listening to this, it’s filtering through their lens of the logical mind. There is a part of them that’s going “Do I agree with what Adam is saying right now? Do I resonate with that?”, and if the answer is yes, “Okay, great”, and then if he says something else, “Okay, do I agree with that? Yeah, I do”, and if I say enough things that they’re resonating with, we have creative rapport. And now, at a certain stage, maybe I say something and it hits deep right away, which is why, by the way, the things that our family says to us can cut so deep, someone else could say it and we don’t care, but our mom or dad says that thing, it’s just so deep, because we have that deep level of rapport over years that’s been built, and so we let them into our emotional bodies more readily.
And despite the fact that we have a society that seems to be set up to make it easy to avoid the discomfort, let’s numb out through processed foods and sugars and social media, etc., etc., art is the permission slip that people have to feel. If someone believes that something is a piece of art, they are going to go into that experience expecting to feel something. You put on music because of how it makes you feel. You go into a movie theater because of how you think that movie is going to make you feel. And so, even the most shut down human being who doesn’t normally want to feel is listening to music or watching movies or experiencing art of some kind because of how it makes them feel.
And so, knowing that the transformation happens at the feeling level, here we have this technology to bypass the mind and go right into the heart, right into the feelings. And so, this process, for me, is so important to understand because the depth at which you can reach someone is the depth that you’re willing to show your own heart. Vulnerability is the gateway to connection. So, when I actually create a piece of art, if I’m unwilling to let you see my wounds, my scars, the parts I judge, if I’m not willing to let you see that, there’s only so far, I can penetrate into your own emotional body.
And so, I’m here because I want to help people transform. What drives me is, I was not this person, I didn’t actually think of myself as a creative person, I didn’t think of myself as an artist, I did not, I was shut down emotionally, my father is from The Philippines, I had a very stoic Asian role model, as a father whose emotions were not safe in my home. And so, I didn’t know how to do this, and I learned how to do this and transformed my own life, and I’m so passionate that if I can do it, anyone can do it.
And so, that is why I think that the understanding, and why I answered your question in that way is, I do it because I recognize what’s possible from the impact, when I’m willing to show out that vulnerability. That’s what drives me, not because it’s not uncomfortable, it’s definitely uncomfortable to be that vulnerable, to make my reality show the art of choosing love on YouTube, it’s basically me crying all over the world, after a break up, after 10 years, and wanting to show people what the healing journey looks like, after a break up, after being with someone for 10 years and feeling like a 40-year-old virgin, not even knowing how to date. Instagram wasn’t even a thing when we started dating, I was 23 when I met her, I was 33 when we broke up, I didn’t know what to do, but I knew that if I could just show people that I was doing my best and show it to them as real as possible, that was how to make the biggest impact, not from the structure of it or the logical idea of it, but just opening up to that depth.
And I think if people recognized that that is what actually penetrates more deeply, it gives more purpose behind why would someone share vulnerably. And so, that really is how I get there.

[34:11] Sahara
I love that so much because we do, even just the little snippets of your story you shared in that, it helps us understand you in such a deeper way and gain more curiosity of like “Oh, tell me more about that break up. Tell me more about your relationship with your father.” And we, so readily, feel this with other people, but for whatever reason we feel like “Oh, well, maybe people don’t care about my story”, or “My story is not that important”, or “I’m not good at telling it”, or “We haven’t yet connected the piece of the dot so it doesn’t really feel like the story arch the same way that someone who’s a story teller may tell.” So, if you are someone listening to this Podcast, that does want to help people and does want to share their story but maybe feels like “I don’t know how, I don’t know how to make it interesting for people”, what advice do you have?

[35:02] Adam
Well, it is a lot of pieces to that actually. The first one being, just start to be honest. I really think that so – I operate by rapid prototyping. Tom Chi was an engineer at Google and he coined this term ‘rapid prototyping’, which is just, you’ll learn more from doing than planning. And so, I like to say, if you want to know how to become more interesting in telling your story, for example, be more effective in how to do that, start doing it and learn what works and what doesn’t work. The caveat to this, as we’re talking about sharing our stories and our personal journeys, it’s important for us to have the discernment of where is the safe space to do that. It is not everywhere and with everyone, that’s actually an unsafe thing to do, and as a result, you can cause more wounding, more trauma, you can reinforce the belief that no one cares about your story or it’s not safe to share your story because you picked the wrong places or people or situations to share it in.
And so, this is why you have your community and I have my community, all of us are leading communities because we understand the power of them. When you have a safe space to express, when you have a safe space to be seen, when you have a safe space to try out something new, that is so critical. And I encourage people to find the safe space, as a first step, find the place that you feel safe to do it and then start doing it, start sharing more of yourself, start sharing more of your art, find the unique way in which your story gets to be expressed.
If you want to – I considered myself a really great storyteller and artist, in that way, but is something I want to make sure people understand is, I trained and studied in that. I was an actor in Los Angeles, writer, director, producer, I’ve read so many books on story, I’ve read hundreds of scripts, performed thousands of scenes, directed music videos and web series, I have a background as a studied storyteller. And so, there’s a lot that can go into the craft of storytelling, absolutely, and how you ultimately want to express it. You’ve got to find the love for it first, right? Don’t study the craft of guitar-playing until you start playing the guitar. You don’t need to worry about how to craft your story until you just start, start getting comfortable sharing, find the safe spaces.

[37:47] Sahara
I love that! And, yeah, we learn so much by telling story, then we kind of feel into how did that person respond from me telling the story or what are people more curious about in my story? And also, the more healing we do, it connects those dots that we didn’t realize that that random fight that I had with someone was related to this breakthrough that I had three years later on, and we’re like “Oh, wow”, and the story changes as we do.
So, I feel like, so often, we think “Well, I don’t have a cool story”, but it’s really just those people telling their stories have done that introspective work of connecting the dots, so it sounds like this beginning, middle, end, but really, there were many years and many moments that were not said in that story, it’s just that they’re telling you those that are the most beneficial for you to get the point.

[38:39] Adam
Yeah. And when you think about movies, for example, and TV shows, one description I love, I’ve always loved this, is movies are real life with the boring parts taken out. So, you go from one scene where something pivotal is happening to another scene where something’s happening to another scene, but in between that might have been a week. Even in that reality over there, was a week of time where they just went to work and they came home and then they made some dinner and they fed their dogs and took the dog on a walk and then went to bed and nothing really happened, but a week later this thing happened, and we just jump from scene to scene. We all have that, if we were to just look at your highlight reels of where things happened in your life, you have a story. Some people have far more interesting ones, absolutely, and if you want that to be you, great, go and live an interesting life. How do you live an interesting life? Push your edges. You want to become more interesting, push the edges of your fears and your doubts and your insecurities, do the work to uncover what was it that me to think that I couldn’t do this in the first place? Let me step out of this.”
I recently went to ISTA, are you familiar with ISTA? Yeah. So, for people who don’t know, ISTA is the International School of Temple Arts, it’s like a tantra school, jokingly referred to as sex camp, by my facilitator in Costa Rica. And I went to that. And I’ve been studying tantra probably for the last 6 years, but I’d never been in, and I’ve worked with facilitators and different things, but I’ve never been in a container quite like ISTA, where, legitimately, at night, they open it up to something called Temple, where people can just be having sex, it can turn into a giant orgy, there’s so many things that can happen, there’s no real rule, there are some rules but you get my point.
I’ve never been in that sort of scenario before, and so, let me go and just push those edges, let me see what I can uncover about myself. And by doing things like that consistently, I become a more interesting person, I have more interesting stories, I have more depth of insight into myself, I have more interesting insight into, sociologically, other human beings, and I have more things that I can actually engage in conversation with different types of people with.
Now, I, inherently, will have more cool stories to tell as a result of that. So, when thinking about “How do I tell my story in a more interesting way?”, yes, we’d address that, but two, how are you being the most interesting version of yourself, what is that? How are you living your life right now to be pushing your edges and be evolving in a way that is inspiring, that is intriguing that I want to ask questions like “What was the sex camp, what was that like?”, those sorts of things.

[41:31] Sahara
And I love how it’s a choice. There’s aspects of your story that were not your choice, the family you grew up with, conditions, but going to sex camp, that’s a choice that you made and makes it so interesting and I’m like “I want to ask you fifty more questions”.
For me, moving to India, that was a choice, it didn’t have to happen. So, I think for so many people, they’re waiting for something interesting to happen or “I made it to this point of my life, so I guess all the cool experiences I could’ve had, are in my past”, but to consistently make that choice oh “How am I being my most interesting self” and pushing those boundaries and pushing those edges. So, I’d love to know what did being at sex camp teach you about creativity?

[42:16] Adam
Well, it taught me a lot about my own blockages around my sexual energy, specifically. So, I was molested at the age of 5 and it was a repressed memory that I didn’t remember until I was 30 years old. So, for about 25 years of my life, I moved through the world interacting in a way that, like, the story that I took on, for example, was that sexual energy is unsafe, being the object of sexual desire can cause pain, that men’s sexual desires are uncontrollable, because there’s a man, those sorts of stories that laid dormant in my unconscious that I couldn’t even remember the memory. So, you imagine, I have been someone for most of my life that had shied away from sexual energy. When women have brought intense sexual energy to me, I felt very uncomfortable actually, I haven’t liked being pursued very strongly in that way, and I haven’t actually pursued very strongly, or felt comfortable with my own energy, because, unconsciously, I didn’t want to be the man that caused so much pain. And so, going to ISTA and having this experience where I realized that my sexual energy, specifically, and how I hold it and how I communicate about it and interact with women around that, can be a huge gift when held in a really conscious way. A man’s sexual energy can be one of the most healing gifts that he can give because, especially on this planet right now, with so much pain that has been caused by unconscious male sexual energy, and the wounding around male sexuality that has led to “Oh, I’m just going to take it”, “I’m just going to rape and assault and just suppress”, and all of these things as a result of that, to be able to interact and relate between a man and a woman in a way where I can hold it with consciousness and bring that to the space, creates a new reference point. And I experienced it in real time, how healing that can be.
And so, that aspect, for me, brought a whole new level of embodiment and confidence into me moving through the world, actually having my sexual energy readily available and being willing to exchange in it. And not mean having sex, even being willing to flirt or make more eye contact, or whatever that might be, by being able to bring that into the world, that is unlocking more lifeforce in me, I’m talking how it may funnel into sexuality. But actually, what it is, it’s just moving through the world with more lifeforce, because I’m not suppressing a bunch of it, and then, I can move that and channel it into creativity.

[45:17] Sahara
So beautifully said! And I think we can all really resonate with shutting down our sexual energy because we don’t want to come off as – you know, for a woman, asking for it, or getting uncomfortable attention from someone, or all of the different ways that can be funneled, and the ways that we can shut ourselves down and make ourselves small and dim ourselves.
And I know, for a lot of women, almost act cold and mean and manly, even, to be like “No, I am not sexually available”, and then that, the way that we embody energy is the way that we’re going to create and the way that we’re going to show up in the world.
I remember living in India, it’s almost like if you make eye contact with a man on the street, you want to fuck him, that’s how they might take it. So, I’m walking down the street with this bitch face on and looking down on the floor and no eye contact, so I’m not going to open up the moment I get inside the room and be like super Shakthi and creative, I’m still going to be embodied in that energy of shut down and walls around us.
And I think so many of us are constantly living in that space, especially if you’re in an office or in corporate where it’s almost like, oh, if you make a little bit too long an eye contact, that’s unprofessional.

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[47:39] Sahara
How can we, now, open ourselves up to playing with that sexual energy without, maybe, making other people feel uncomfortable?

[47:49] Adam
Well, this is a really interesting question, and I think a conversation that is evolving right now in the collective. I feel as if there is a renegotiation of how to relate, how men and women are relating. There’s a renegotiation happening and there is a rise of the divine feminine that is very clearly happening on this planet. And I think that’s amazing, and at the same time, I also recognize that it can, very easily, shift into women wielding wounded masculine energy. And so that is an interesting nuance even in enough itself, is this wounded masculine that feels like “I have felt not powerful, never. I’m just going to take.” And I’ve seen that exact same thing happened on the other side, amongst women, who have felt they’ve been shut down, they haven’t been powerful, and now, it’s like “Well, we’re just going to take it!”
And so, it is a renegotiation and I think that, quite honestly, it always starts with “Can I be in right relationship with my own sexual energy?” And as odd as that may sound, or as simplistic, or maybe, it’s too fundamentally basic, but I don’t know too many people who have great relationships with their own sexual energy. It is a very small percentage, even within the “conscious community”. There are so many people that have been in personal development for a decade and done all the plant medicine work and all of the things, and yet, are in relationships, in a marriage, where they don’t speak about sex, openly, they don’t talk about their deep desires, they don’t bring those things up because they don’t want to rock the boat.
There are so many, and that’s within conscious relationships. And so, I think that coming into right relationship with our own sexual energy and getting to a space in which we are not ashamed of it, we don’t feel guilt around it, we feel empowered in our desires and the ability to voice them, that level of ownership of us, as sexual beings, is going to translate out into how we communicate with each other. And in that, it’s like I was speaking earlier, by me being in a right relationship with my own sexual energy, I now have the ability to relate with women in a way that creates a new reference point that they may not have experienced before. And that, now, upon having that experience, it’s like “Oh, in my next relationship, with the next man that I date, I’m going to request a certain level of communication, I’m going to request a certain level of after care, after the next time I sleep with someone new for the first time”, and all of these things that can be new standards that we hold, but they can only happen through – that’s only possible for me to even do because I’ve come into right relationship within myself.

[50:58] Sahara
Yeah, and it’s dropping this scarcity of “Well, if I have those needs then there won’t be anyone left for me”. I think a lot of people, especially with women, but probably with men too, but the conversation with women is “There’s no conscious men. So, if I desire someone who’s embodied, and tantric, and in his masculine, I’m going to be left alone forever, so I should lower my standards.”
So, what do you say to women who are feeling like that? Who feel like “Maybe I’m just too conscious to find a man?”

[51:32] Adam
Yeah, that’s a protection mechanism. That is a protection mechanism around the insecurities and fears of not being ultimately desired or having someone claim you. Because, let’s speak to the factual, which is, there are more women in the conscious personal development space than men, 100%, that is a fact. That is shifting though, and there are a lot of conscious men. And the thing that I want to remind women of, and this is the nature of the feminine, by the way, which is, the masculine wants to provide for you, the masculine wants to meet you, the masculine wants to give you whatever the hell you want. That is the design of the masculine, we are here to fill you, literally, figuratively, all the ways. And the feminine is the pulling in, you are the magnet. And so, basically, what I mean is, everything that men do is for women. Ultimately, at the end of the day, we are wanting to meet you, we are wanting to be desired by you, we are wanting all of those things because that is the divine design of the yin and yang energies.
Now, with that said, let’s make it known to men what you want, let’s make it known to men what you’re looking for, let’s make it known to men how attractive it is for them to be able to be vulnerable, how attractive for them it is to have emotional intelligence and the communication skills to be able to voice what’s going on inside of them, while it’s happening, instead of shutting down, retreating or becoming angry. When that becomes understood by men, that that’s what you want, that is going to, 100%, have an impact on how men act. And it’s also important with how it’s framed. I hear that all the time, “Where are all the conscious men?” It’s somewhat insulting, it’s somewhat insulting as a man to be like “Where are all the conscious men?”, I could probably list 50, now. And I do think that there’s an idea within, what I’ve seen, and maybe I’m going to trigger people here, let’s go there – but I do feel like there’s an idea that somehow women are – I’ve experienced women (let’s put it this way), I’m trying to be, how I say this – I have experienced some women in relationship (in going on dates) where these women said that sort of thing, where it’s like “I can’t find a man to meet me, blah, blah”, and then when I experience them, they are showing up in ways that I would say, or actually very immature, from a consciousness, spiritual standpoint. There’s a lot of wounding, a lot of needing to prove, still in the masculine energy of proving my worth as a queen, and all of these things, these dynamics. And so, this woman is someone who’s actively out in the world, saying “Where are all the conscious men?”, and then myself, when I show up, I’m not perfect, but I’m definitely a conscious male and I’m definitely aware of what I bring to the table and who I am and the value that I provide, etc., etc. And, when in relationship with you, I experience something that feels really not great, beyond just incompatibility, from an actual, this is coming from a wound, this is projection, this is actually not the type of conscious relating that I would coach people on or welcome into my life. And so, there is an aspect of that that I find in a lot of women, specifically, of this idea that they’re at a certain place that men can’t meet them, but their vision of where they are isn’t entirely accurate. And I think that goes for everyone, I take ownership of that, even of within myself. And I just want to make that point, because I don’t know how many men are actually willing to go out on the Lim and actually point this out and say this that directly.

[55:45] Sahara
Well, thank you for sharing that. And I think that that’s really great feedback because most people would probably go date to date, and then for whatever reason it’s not working out, so they have in their mind “Oh, he wasn’t conscious enough for me”, rather than, whatever they were doing in their energy that may have been repelling people. And it’s sort of like, how women, often, when they are abandoned, they take on the independent woman personality of “I don’t need a man, I’m good on my own”, that, what you just said, I just thought about it.
In spirituality it’s like “I am a queen. I am beautiful and perfect”, and that is one stage of the healing journey, to be like “Yes, I am the goddess! Yes, I deserve it all!”, but then, if it’s just saying the affirmations and not actually embodying them and believing them, then it can have that protection mechanism around that like “Oh, well if he didn’t show up exactly how I wanted, it’s because he’s not ready for a queen like me!” rather than whatever the thing is in compatibility, etc.

[56:47] Adam
Yeah. And I had Stefanos on my podcast, The Deep Dive Podcast, and we asked the question “Are men sick of dating spiritual women?” And that was the question we dove into on my podcast, and because, and that stemmed from – I visited Austin, I was in a group of 4 or 5 conscious men, and we were all sharing that we were, kind of, sick of dating inside the conscious community because of a lot of behavior patterns that we were noticing that were really freaking annoying, like the spiritual bypass, super common in there, and it comes from this place of what you just said “I’m a queen, I’m a goddess, etc.” and therefore, if we disagree, you’re not meeting me here, at this level or whatever. And then it becomes wrapped in spiritual jargon and wording and different things that just feels patronizing. And it was interesting to voice this and hear 4 other men voice the same thing. And it’s a very fine line because I also recognize that it comes from this beautiful space of women feeling empowered, feeling empowered, owning their worth, claiming the desires. There is a beauty that’s happening where it’s stemming from. But there is a balance that gets to be struck, that it’s like, I imagine that you’re a superhero and you just came to your superpowers, you don’t know how to control them yet, and yeah, there’s like a maturing of those superpowers, and I feel like that’s happening on both sides, for the masculine and the feminine.

[58:29] Sahara
Yeah, and I think, and exactly what you said of, we’re figuring out the right way of relating to each other, that I could see the perspective of “Well, maybe men just aren’t used to women claiming their power” and I also see the perspective of “When you’re empowered, you don’t need to keep telling people”, right? You just are. So, it’s that fine line of knowing what’s right for you.
And I also see a lot of women with the conscious men, because I hear the opposite of like “I’m sick of dating the conscious men of the spiritual bypassing, of them not being in their masculine, of all of them being polyamorous”, that’s a big one. And yeah, and also, that there’s a lot of processing happening, often when there’s two people in a conscious relationship, they have these tools and they want to bring out their whiteboard every time there’s a fight, and for a lot of people, it’s like – again, we can get used to that and that can become our new normal and our new way of relating, maybe we’re just not used to it, and here’s what we need. Or it’s like, taking everything maybe really seriously of like “I am conscious so there must be a process of how we move through every single thing, and are we okay?”, that it’s like “Chill, live your life!”

[59:44] Adam
Guilty!

[59:45] Sahara
What’s your take on that?

[59:46] Adam
Guilty! I was definitely that person for many, many years! I was in a 10-year relationship and I was 100% that person, and part of that is, you know, when you get really excited about something, you want to teach it, it’s so common. I know you coach and people are brand new to spirituality or awakening or personal development, and they see so many shifts happening that there’s this natural desire to want to share it and teach it, and that sort of thing. And that’s very, very common with everything, “Oh, I love guitar and now I want to play it everywhere and I want to do this and this”, there’s a desire to share it out, so I think that applies to relationships. And I think that there’s a “Wow, I’ve never related consciously before! And all of the things I’ve learned in personal development, I want to bring into my relationship”, and there’s an excitement there. I don’t think it comes from a bad place at all.
And where I feel like I am now, because my spiritual awakening really happened in 2013, so it was like 9 years ago, and in the time since then to now, and the different relationships I’ve had and learnings, I can say that I don’t desire that in my relationship because I see that happening, the growth happening, naturally, just based on who we are. We don’t have to bring the structure of “Let’s dive into every wound thing, it’s better with the whiteboard”, but that’s what it was initially for me. And that’s what I mean when I say there’s a level of, sort of, maturity that I think happens. And I can see where I was really immature with it, from a place of excitement, thinking it was more beneficial, but then I found myself in these loops of processing, just processing it over and over, because the truth is, that we’re always going to have growth, we’re always going to come up against our limiting beliefs, fears, doubts, insecurities, especially if you’re living at the edge of your consciousness. And in relationship, the person that you’re with is your greatest mirror and therefore, they are going to reflect all of those things back to you, whether you like it or not. And so, how you be with that is actually a conscious choice and decision, as a couple, that you get to determine, and if you’re not careful, it can just become a giant personal development workshop, non-stop, and that’s exhausting.
And so, I know that for myself, it’s taken me a pretty long time to get here, I’d say, but I am glad to be here and have the awareness of what I do desire, moving forward now.

[1:02:30] Sahara
Yeah. And I think with every relationship it’s so different. For some people it’s like, they may both be coaches, and the whiteboard is their savior, and for other people it just may feel like too much work, or maybe you’re coaching people all the time that you just don’t want to have that in your relationship. So, it is definitely a trial and error.
So, I’d love to ask you, since we’re on this topic, a lot of women, they meet conscious mean and they’re beautiful people, but one thing, “I need to be polyamorous”, and for the woman, it doesn’t feel true to her, it’s not something that she wants, and at the same time, she starts to question “Am I stuck in this old relationship model? Maybe I should be open to it”, but she also feels like maybe she’s fighting against her heart or her biology. So, I’d love to know what’s your take on that. Is it something that you’re, kind of, born with, do you think, polyamorous, monogamous, or a relational thing that changes over time?

[1:03:27] Adam
I believe that the nature of someone is definitely a factor. So, compersion, compersion means that you get pleasure from your partner’s pleasure, seeing someone else’s pleasure. So, this is where, I’m watching a new podcast called You’re Too Much, with Taylor Simpson, and the two of us are doing is, and one of the episodes is actually titled “I Want To See My Husband Fuck Another Woman”. And Taylor has so much compersion and really a lack of jealousy, to the point where that’s her experience, she wants to see her husband have sex with another woman, and that’s exciting to her, there’s no part of her that contracts around that. That is not most people’s experience.
Now, I imagine some of that is some sort of biological aspect, sure, and some part of that is actually the environment that she grew up in and around, and the various different aspects of childhood development. But I do think, that to some degree, you can learn some of those skills, you can learn how to find the pleasure in your partner’s pleasure. You can recognize that underneath the fact that you’re like “There’s no way”, there might actually be a huge piece of jealousy, there may be a huge fear that they would leave you and fall in love with someone else. So, the question really becomes, that I encourage people to ask, when they’re in that conversation around polyamory or whatever, is, the reason why I’m a no to this, or a yes to this, where is it coming from? Is my come from actually “I’m afraid that they’re going to fall in love with someone else and leave me?” Great, then it doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily against polyamory, you’re just living through a relational lens that has a lot of fear in it, that’s the reality in which you’re viewing your partner, is that, if given the option, they would leave you, that’s a fear.
And so, for me, I’m not polyamorous, I actually, I’ve tried various types of relating, but I am a monogamous person, I desire to meet my queen, have a family and a nest, etc., and it’ll be great to go to play parties or occasionally bring another woman into the bedroom, or something like that. But I desire a, definitely, primarily monogamous container, and that’s through exploration. And the reason I desire that is not because I’m afraid of them actually leaving me for someone else, I’ve explored that tremendously, I want that because I want the depth that comes from this person and I are life-ing together. And in polyamory, it’s not like “Oh, I have three girlfriends and they each get one third of my time”, you have three full-time relationships. And so, I don’t personally find even the bandwidth, I’m not even sure how you do that, let alone go to the same level of depth, and I’m more interested in the depth, personally.

[1:06:41] Sahara
Yeah, I think it’s definitely, that’s interesting with Taylor because what I find is, maybe people who pull more to the masculine tend to have more of that desire or capacity to even be polyamorous, it’s not something I typically see heterosexual women in, so that’s really interesting with Taylor. She does have a strong Pitta fire energy in her, so I wonder if that could be connected to it.

[1:07:05] Adam
My partner of 10 years was very feminine, in a lot of ways, and she also just, no jealousy bone, and got turned on by that idea.
I was so insecure in my own sexuality, believe it or not, that I just never even acted on it, or we never went that direction. But it is something that some people have. And I think that if you can identify what is underneath it (in both directions), what is underneath it, because for some people, it may be, they want that aspect of whatever and they think that it’s, I hate when polyamorous people seem to think it’s a more evolved state of being, that really is annoying to me. But there are people who are going into polyamory because they have fear of intimacy, or they have fear of commitment, and they’re afraid of their partner leaving, and instead of trying to control, they actually try and just have a bunch of different options, it’s still the same thing, there’s still a fear driving it. And so, ultimately, when we can identify – my way, that I move through the world is, if I can identify that there’s a fear that’s responsible for how I’m acting or showing up in some way, I’m going to adjust, I’m going to address that thing, I’m going to move it, because I refuse to let fear be the foundational energy underneath any of my actions, if I’m aware of it.

[1:08:28] Sahara
I think there’s also, maybe based off of evolution, for women, and for men, like, if a woman was pregnant, you didn’t necessarily know whose baby it was. So, if a woman was having sex with multiple people, the man wouldn’t know if that was his seed, so I think that’s why there is this biological desire to have your woman to yourself and to only mate with one partner, because to know “That is, for sure, my child.”

[1:08:56] Adam
Yeah, well, it’s interesting, because I’ve heard it also said the other way, where one of the benefits of, certain tribes where they’re all, kind of, having sex and it’s very open, whatever, is that, because you don’t know which child is yours, the entire village is incentivized to take care of everyone’s children, as if they’re their own.

[1:09:13] Sahara
Well, what tribes, I’m curious, where in the world is that the case?

[1:09:18] Adam
I think it’s far more rare, I’m trying to remember what book it is from, is it “Sex At Dawn”?

[1:09:23] Sahara
I think “Sex At Dawn” talks about it, but I’m not sure, because I’ve heard that too, but I’m curious because marriage is just such a part of almost every culture. Not marriage the institution, but choosing your partner and life-ing with them.

[1:09:39] Adam
Yeah, I would say that that’s far more normalized. I would say the other aspect is not the common thing, it’s not like tribes everywhere are doing that. I do think partnering, and that has its own biological implications around the fact that basically human babies are the most vulnerable of pretty much any species. So, the necessity of having a protector of that baby – and I honestly think that what is most important is for people to find their truth. I do feel like there are polyamorous couples that, I’m sure are incredibly happy and find a way to make it work, I don’t know many, and I know a lot of people who’ve tried polyamory, it’s not the easiest thing to do. And I would probably say 85% of the polyamorous people that I know in my life have either 1) gone away from polyamory, or 2) are in a great deal of drama and not really healthy dynamics, and it’s causing a lot of issues. It’s rare for me to meet polyamorous couples that are thriving, where I look at them and go “Wow, that’s a great model that other people should really be aware of”, I meet far more of those in the monogamous space. However, I’ll also add that there’s not – I mean, look at the divorce rates and the unhealthy, unconscious, relating that’s out there too, I don’t how many monogamous couples are out there that are actually role models for what I personally would want in my life either.

[1:11:17] Sahara
Yeah, and that’s why it just comes down to healing. I think, you know, you can find those same traumas playing out in real time, in monogamy or in polyamory, it’s just like, pick whichever model that you desire.
And I think, too, with the polyamory, it’s such a new topic and so many people are exploring it, so there is that element of like “Is this the next step of evolution for humanity? Is this the more conscious thing?”
But I know for myself, when I just feel into it, it’s just a body-based no, for me. So, I wonder what is your advice for people who, maybe, they (for women specifically), maybe they meet a man and he’s everything they’ve wanted on their list, but he’s polyamorous. Do you think that they should give it a try or do you think if the immediate response was a no, they should just stick with that?

[1:12:07] Adam
I think the immediate response is to be explored, and that doesn’t mean that you have to go and date that person. I mean, in your own internal inquiry of like “Oh, that’s a no”, okay, why? Why is that the initial response, and is that coming from a fear or is that actually coming from a place of empowerment? There’s no right or wrong answer to that, it’s not like you become so healed in all of your wounds, and now you want to become polyamorous because all your jealousy is gone, that’s not the design of it. You may heal all your wounds and different things, and have been polyamorous, and no longer want to be after that. Again, figuring that out. But that initial starting place of “Okay, I’m honoring what my body says and I get to actually go into it”. And ideally, we’re finding the situation, you’re finding a partner in which you’re able to explore that together, you’re able to have the conversation, you’re able to say “Why do you want to be polyamorous, why is that important to you, what is the value, what is it that you’re worried about or what is it that you want to maintain, what is it that you think up in a monogamous relationship?” Have those conversations, if you can’t even have those conversations on both ends, then I don’t know that you’re really in the type of conscious relationship that you want to be in anyway. And if you can’t have that type of conversation with someone who wants to be polyamorous, that’s a huge red flag, because polyamory requires an even greater level of communication, not less.

[1:13:35] Sahara
So true! Yeah, that communication piece I so important. People think polyamory is just like “Oh, you get to have sex with whoever you want and all the boyfriends, all the girlfriends”, but no, it’s like a lot of really tough conversations and meeting your jealousy or your feeling of left out again and again and again. And for some people, I think, that’s their life path that they choose to grow from, of like “I want to learn from that”, and for other people it’s like “No, I’m going to learn from this other life path and that’s just not the thing I want to spend all my time on”.

[1:14:08] Adam
It’s been hard enough for me just dating! Just dating a few people at the same time, I don’t know how a polyamorous thing, I just can’t. So, navigating everyone’s experiences, so kudos to people who do it well!

[1:14:22] Sahara
So, before we let you go, I would love if you could share one of your spoken word pieces? Any bit in this conversation.

[1:14:33] Adam
Yeah! What would fit into a polyamorous conversation?

[1:14:37] Sahara
Or creativity, self-love, feminine/masculine polarity.

[1:14:42] Adam
Let me do, since we’re talking about the masculine and feminine, I want to start there, I think that that would be a really beautiful one to offer here because – you know, I learned a lot about the masculine and the feminine, and the aspect that I spoke to in here, which is the fact that the masculine wants to give, the masculine always wants to fill the needs of the feminine, as best as we possibly can, but sometimes that isn’t actually what the feminine needs. And so, I wrote this poem immediately following a break up, where that was my lesson. And this poem is called “Us”.

[1:15:23] Adam – poem “Us”
Everyone, take a nice deep inhale. And exhale.

You asked how can I know you love me.
How can I trust in us?
I said “Don’t you worry, my dear, I will give you the heavens above.
I wanted to give you the Moon, but you said that it was not bright enough,
So, I tried to give you the Sun, but you said it was too hot to touch.
So, I searched and searched for something that could keep you warm at night,
That could help you find your way, that could be your guiding light.
The star’s too small, but I tried to collect them all.
I moved mountains to ease your path.
I put a ring of Saturn on each of your fingers, which was no easy task.
Picked out every piece of salt, so the whole ocean could be your bath.
Spent all day sweeping clouds away so it wouldn’t rain, unless you asked.
Caught lightning in a bottle, learned how to speak to the wind,
Hoping that each time I said “I love you”, you might finally breathe it in.
But it seemed like no matter what I did, something never was quite right.
The fire kept on burning out and with it went the light.
So tired, worn and weary, I finally gave up,
Came to you, asked for a clue, “Why was none of it enough?”
You smiled sadly at me then,
Kissed my cheek, a gentle touch,
Said “I can see you tried so hard, you have given me so much”,
But you never needed to do those things,
I never asked for any of them,
It was you who pulled down Saturn’s rings and cleaned out all the oceans.
All I wanted was some warmth,
To know I’m safe when times get hard,
A light to help me find my way back home, when times get dark.
To all the Moon was dim and the Sun too hot, you’ve had the answer from the start,
Deep within, what can’t be bought,
What I wanted was your heart.
And on that day, I learned a lesson that I hope I can pass to you,
So, the next time you ask that question “How do I know our love is true?”
You’ll know that the answer is in all the little things you do.
It’s the way you listen to her breathe, when she falls asleep at night.
It’s how you never make her wrong, even when she is isn’t right.
It’s how you never shy away from her eyes when they’re full of rage.
She feels safe to scream till she cries, because you’re there to wipe her tears away.
It’s the way you rest your hand, so gently around her hips,
So other women can clearly see, he’s proud that she is his.
There’s a warmth in feeling claimed,
She knows you won’t give up without a fight,
That’s how she knows she can trust your love,
That’s how your heart becomes her light.

[1:18:31] Sahara
So beautiful! Wow! I just felt that, and such a beautiful reminder of the little ways that we show love in everyday living experience rather than feeling like we need to go to Saturn and get all the rings.

[1:18:49] Adam
Absolutely!

[1:18:50] Sahara
So beautifully expressed! Thank you for that!

[1:18:53] Adam
You’re welcome! Yeah, that one was deeply earned, let’s put it that way. I earned that lesson! And yeah, I think, for me, I was so busy in the doing, of trying to prove my love, that I didn’t create the space to really hear what was needed from her. Yeah, I think that’s a very common thing that happens.

[1:19:17] Sahara
Thank you for putting that into words, and for everything that you shared on the Podcast today. So, where can listeners connect with you further and be part of your year of art that is coming this year?

[1:19:31] Adam
Yeah. I’m going to be finishing my first ever poetry book this year and all of the things, so I’m very excited.
You can find me online, I have lots of online real estate, so, @adam.roa on Instagram, Adam Roa on Facebook, YouTube, etc., I have podcast called The Deep Dive with Adam Roa. And I also have a podcast launching with Taylor Simpson called You’re Too Much. And then, I have an online personal development community, thecreatecommunity.com and adamroa.com you can find your way there.

[1:20:00] Sahara
Well, thank you again, so much for sharing your wisdom, your art and your creativity with us today, we’re so grateful!

[1:20:07] Adam
Yeah, thank you for having me, Sahara, I really appreciate it. It’s been a great conversation, we went all over the place!

[1:20:11] Sahara
Yes!

[1:20:12] Adam
Beautiful! Thank you all for listening!

[1:20:15] End of Interview
__________________________________________________________

[1:20:15] Sahara
Oh, my goddess! My heart is just blasted open from that beautiful poetry and the words, and the meaning behind them, it is so beautiful when us humans can create with our artistry. And creating all of our life experiences and transmuting them into art is truly our highest potential and why we are here, as humans, we are here to create.

[1:20:38] Sahara
So, thank you for being part of this incredible journey, I loved this conversation. We went so many places and that’s what I love about the Podcast, we get to keep it real, we get to talk about creativity and polyamory and spiritual relationships, and everything in between. And I love having conversations with this. Adam is actually a good friend of mine, but sometimes I feel like I get to know people better on the Podcast than I actually even get to talk to them in real life because you just don’t really quite go there.

[1:21:06] Sahara
So, thank you for being our third in this conversation and for keeping your heart open in these times. I’m so grateful for you being here and I’ll see you in the next one!

Namaste!

Episode 430: How Creativity is Related to Sexuality, Sharing Your Story + Conscious
Relationships with Adam Roa
By Sahara Rose