Highest Self Podcast 292: Racial Issues From a Shamanic Perspective with Tatyana Rae

What is happening in the world is a reflection of what is happening within. In this episode, I sit back down with 69-year-old Shaman Tatyana Rae, of the Aztec + Toltec lineage, to discuss her Shamanic perspective of what is happening in the world today. We GO THERE yet again, discussing tribal warfare, fear of the other, cultural appropriation and other topics that may be on your mind but you’re afraid to speak about. Enter with an open heart and open mind.

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Episode 292: Racial Issues from a Shamanic Perspective with Tatyana Rae

By Sahara Rose

Namaste. It’s Sahara Rose and welcome back to the Highest Self Podcast, a place where we discuss what makes you, your soul’s highest evolvement.

If there’s one thing that 2020 has taught us, it is that awakenings aren’t easy. Awakenings aren’t glamorous, they aren’t being in your beautiful tight-eye shirt with your crystals, meditating to Hare Krishna. Sometimes they are, but not always. Awakenings bring up shadows. Shadows are aspects of yourself and aspects of society that you have chosen not to look at because they feel too heavy, they feel too dark. And even this word of light and dark I don’t like it because it perpetuates the problem that black is wrong.

And this is the shadow that we are awakening to right now; that we have subconsciously, since the beginning of this country, perpetuated the story that black is wrong, black people are wrong, black people are second class. If you aren’t aware of the history of the United States, I encourage you to read a wonderful book by someone named Howard Zinn, and Howard Zinn wrote People’s History to the United States and essentially it talks about actually what this country was based off of which many of you guys know began because people wanted freedom and wanted liberty and justice for all which was beautiful, but because of the group ‘think’, it turned into thinking that it’s ok to use people for free labor; that if you buy them from their owner than it’s ok because you’ve paid for them. Not that you’re paying them but you’ve paid for them.

It’s almost like, sometimes I’m like ‘how can someone have thought that was ok’, but I think about the things that we don’t question in our society today, and back in those days it wasn’t questioned. You had a building to build, well, you weren’t going to do it, so would buy a human, a slave. Not so different still in India, use the word ‘servant’, it’s not so different. So, our history has been based off of slavery, about 265 years of slavery and then another hundred or so years of just a systematized oppression where people were forced to live in certain areas because they were black, they were forced to only drink out of certain water fountains because they were black. They were forced to sit at the back of the bus. We all know the story of Rosa Parks, and it did not begin with Rosa Parks.

I remember my own grandfather told me, he’s from Iran, but he came to this country as a visitor when he was in the Iranian army, and it was during the time of the Segregation, which was between, about 1865 to 1964..so, which was crazy, 1964 is like was fifty years ago, fifty something years ago. So he came at this time, and you know, he’s a brown person, as am I, and he got on the bus and they said ‘well you can’t sit at the front of the bus, you’re not white’, and everyone at the back of the bus said ‘well you can’t sit here, you’re not black’; and the same thing happened, he couldn’t eat at any restaurant, he couldn’t do anything because America has been built on the system that you are white or you are black, and if you look at the one drop rule, the one drop rule was essentially saying that if you have one drop of black in you, in your blood, you are black, and it’s if you actually look at this concept of white and black, it’s duality, it’s the language that politicians use, you’re with us or against us. And it is fear, it is fear of the other, it is the fear of you are different from me; I don’t understand you, so I’m going to be afraid of you. And I’m going to come up with many stories of why I should be afraid of you, and then when you get angry that I’m afraid of you and that I’ve oppressed you, I’m going to use that to be even more afraid of you.

And it continues, and I will definitely do a solocast on this and the racism that I’ve experienced in this country and go in more into that. But on Friday, which was just three days ago and which already feels like a lifetime ago because it was before this weekend of the protests, before they had already started, and the shifts that they made, which and I’m sure by now, the next days I do my solocast will be at even in a different place. Now on the podcast “I’m like I’m recording these the day before because the world is changing so fast that within one week things become obsolete.

So recorded this on Friday, two-three days ago, I wanted to dive into what is really happening from a spiritual and from a shamanic perspective and we just had Tatyana Rae on the podcast last week , so many of you have been saying that it was one of your favorite podcasts so far. If you don’t know her, she’s a 69-year-old shaman from the Aztec and Toltec tradition, so she’s native American and Mexican, studied with don Miguel Ruiz for a decade, a high priestess, extremely wise, extremely gifted in her shamanic abilities, but what I love about her is she really makes it relatable and understandable.

So I was curious for myself, I sent her a text and I was like ‘what do you think is happening from your perspective, I am genuinely curious, and she was like ‘let’s hop on a call tomorrow so I will tell you’, so I was like ‘let’s record it’ so I can put in on a podcast because I know I’m not the only person you know, looking at what’s happening in 3D reality 100% and also wondering what’s happening from higher points of consciousness as we’re always talking about on the podcasters of 3D, 4D, 5D perspective on everything, and 3D is important not to bypass, not to overlook; there are black people being killed for senseless purposes and the system is based off of racism, that’s the fact; and it’s important to question for me the narrative of what we’re being taught; what the languaging that they are using, what are the continual videos that keep cycling, and also now we are seeing that many of these people entering, you taking advantage of the protests are not protesters, they are looters, they are rioters, they are not part of the Black Lives Matter movement, many of them are white, there’s tons of footage on it, and they’re taking advantage of this opportunity to steal, to just break windows; there are videos of an an undercover white cop just breaking windows, and it very very sad that it is given this movement a bad name and it’s taken the focus of what is it actually about. It’s about black lives being senselessly killed, but now we’re just focused on ‘oh but the looters are being killed, this and that, which we can all agree on that it’s wrong to loot, it’s wrong to steal things.

But we’re losing, we’re losing the plot here of why this even began. So I’m committed to the podcast to actually speak about the root cause of things. What does racism really come from? Why is this happening? From the highest level, why is this happening? And then how can we within ourselves commit to ending the prejudices and the racism that we carry internally, because as is the macrocosm, so is the microcosm, the external role is the reflection of your internal reality.

So on this episode I sit down with Tatyana Rae to speak about the racism happening, but after speaking about the racism happening I actually wanted to dive into some very taboo topics here.

Taboo topics in the spiritual community because they are very divisive but I know people have questions on them and I’m not going to bypass anything that can to help us elevate consciousness. So I asked her, her opinion on cultural appropriation, her opinion on ‘can you study shamanism if you’re white; can you do practices that is not native or indigenous to you, and you’ll actually be very, very surprised by her answer. And this is again coming from a very, very renowned, intelligent shamanic practitioner.

So the topics that we discuss, they’re heavy, they’re heavy, and it is important to be in a grounded place when you listen, don’t listen when you’re super frantic, you’ve just gone down to this rabbit hole, breathe, tune in, tap in, because again, like I said it with the coronavirus – we’re in this for the long run, pace yourself, take care of yourself, keep breathing, keep committing to your daily practices because it’s just the beginning y’all. We haven’t even reached the six-month point of 2020, I do believe that 2021 is going to be a lot lighter, but we’re not fully done with the work of this year, and that is what a lot of people think because these issues are coming to surface and they’re are not new issues, they re issues that have always been there.

And I would love to see more issues with racism, with patriarchy, with homophobia, with classism, with all of these things; with all the wars that we’re doing across the world, with economic wars, the media, all of these things that are coming to surface and if they’re not coming to the surface and we’re like ‘we only want to talk about the love and light’ well the love and the light are the natural response to what happens when you move through the shadows.

So, I invite you to enter this conversation with an open mind, open heart, willing to hear, willing to learn, again, this is one interview and one conversation. I could never, even if I recorded one hundred episodes, get to the bottom of racism because it is so nuanced, it is so complex, it is so multi-layered, so I don’t want you to say ‘you didn’t do this, you didn’t bring in that’…I can’t cause it’s only an hour. I’ll keep talking about it, and in Rose Gold Goddesses I’m committed to having conversations, I am someone who thinks a healthy dialogue is so important, and keep in mind, this is one interview with one person and we’re never going to get to the root of everything in our lifetime, so the best that we can do is to start somewhere.

And if you’re feeling overwhelmed with all of the things, I have in the show notes some resources for you to educate yourself on anti-racism, how to be anti-racist, how to actually take a stance against racism because even you might say ‘oh I’m not racist, I love all people, I don’t see any of color, not knowing that’s just a sign of your privilege because a person of color has no choice but to see their color because their color could put them in danger. I’ll talk more about that on my solocast.

So, come in with an open mind, open heart, know that there’s so much more to this discussion, this discussion is always evolving, right now my friend Koya Webb is about to come over, we’re about to have another conversation on this, so know that wherever you are in your process, that is ok and that is perfect, and we get to be uncomfortable and we get to talk about things that don’t always feel good. Because when we talk about them, we move to the tears and pain and the anger and the sadness, then we can come back to our natural state as bliss and joy. So without further adieu let’s welcome back Tatyana Rae to the Highest Self podcast.

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Welcome back Tatyana to the Highest Self Podcast, it’s so great to have you here.


Thank you, thank you so much. I’m very excited to share with you again. Thank you.


So the listeners just loved your perspective and the way that you bring such an ancient understanding to concepts that we struggle with today, and especially in the news right now – the past week has been about the racial issues that, as you know in your time here – 69 years on this planet, have experienced a wide range of racial issues but for a lot of people it feel shocking and new. So I wanted to know your understanding, your perspective from a shamonic and spiritual perspective of what’s really happening today’s and how we can be allies to help and create more equality in the world.


Without getting into too much spirituality, and I hesitate to even say it that way, Sahara, because life is about spirit. Life is us embodying ourselves as life. I like to say you experiment, you explore, you express and then you have to expose. Ok, and then you go back into experimenting, exploring, expressing, and then you have to expose.

And, so, what is happening in general right now, that many, many people of your age who have not experienced is the hatred. Ok, the hatred. But this has never gone away. Since the moment I was born, you know, 1951. The Second World War had ended around 1945, you see, we were the baby boom because all the men came home and made a lot of love and here we are. And for the longest time we were the largest generation you see, so what I experienced just in my time is the race riots and watts, Rodney Chain, O.J. Simpson, participating in what he did with his family and all of that, and yet he had a lot of money to safeguard himself to a certain extent, you see.

And then recently you all got to participate with the – I’m sorry I don’t know how to say his name correctly, the football player that kneeled Colin Kaepernick and every gentleman was up in arms about that. I think it’s interesting that he got so insulted that he knelt at the song being sung and at the flag being raised because we, the people of color let’s say, cause whites – not also you know, their color is white, or as I call my husband, he’s a pink person..haha. My husband is German, he’s pink, he’s pink you know. We are people of color.

What’s happened though throughout the ages is the color of white has assumed a superior stance and it has not let go of that stand. It has not let go.

What we are in right now, and as all of you are listening, let’s listen, open-minded, you don’t have to believe me but let’s just listen one moment cause I’m speaking from a shamanic point of view. What does that mean? That means that we see the energies at play; let them play out as our lives.

Basically what we are in right now have been for centuries – are tribal wars. Tribal. Sections against sections. In the ancient times, tribes were very necessary and they happened quite naturally because we didn’t have the roads; we didn’t have the vehicles; the wheel had to be invented and I’m really going back into ancient times. So, the sustenance of staying alive and thriving was built on people getting along together; and claiming little parts of their terrain in order to maintain their connection with hunting – if they were hunters and gatherers – maintaining their connection to the crops they were able to grow.

Ok, so being these peoples was very important and these tribes in the end developed specialties, they were specialized tribes; they were the tribes that were the hunters, we really could not be great hunters; tribes who were know to be great archists; they were the tribes that were known to be more spiritual and in tune with the goddess. Everybody kind of developed their own niche of sustenance, and by that way, we were able, we as several tribes were able to continue and prolong the human race. And in the beginning, we stuck with our own – not color – but our own people of our own tribe because that is what we were accustomed to, that is what we had been taught, that is what we were safe, and what we are talking about now Sahara, is what everybody talks about anyway all the time, from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to sleep – am I safe? Am I safe? Am I safe in my job, am I safe in my car on my way wherever, are we safe at the park, are we safe from the sun, am I gonna get a sunburn, am I safe from the inclimate weather?

So these tribes ensured that certain arts were safeguarded and I don’t know what you would even call it – husbandry I believe, you know, with the sheep and the cows and the animals, well, many tribes specialized. And so let’s say the people in Tibet, they specialized in the very high tippy-top mountains, they had their sheep, they had their horses that specialized and they were able to keep that part of the planet quite alive and sacred you see; and there were the, oh my God there were the people from the deserts, I mean you pluck me down in the desert and tell me what to do, I’m not gonna last. These people had ancient heritage that came with marrying within these tribes so history was kept alive, the planet was cared for. This was lost, we no longer cared for our planet; we no longer care about our planet you know.

I’m going to get a little emotional here, but in the ancient times we were in tribes because we were like caretakers, we were caretakers, not only of the animals but the land that we were accustomed to our generations and generations had tended that part of the planet. The land yes, but the planet. Once the Industrial Revolution came along and we lost our connection to that. We are now in a revolution but I would love for this revolution to become evolution that leads to a transformation, not just this ongoing revolution.

And when I say revolution in tribal wars it is very frightening to have anything different. Frightening, cause the first thing we think of is am I safe? Am I safe?

I know I spoke with some people last night in the classes I gave and I said “when my next door neighbor moved in, they’re from Indian, I didn’t know who they were, I just saw the truck, I just got to see the people. And she was cooking the day or so after, the smells of her food lifted over, it was summer so we had our doors open, and it was very very pungent and I remember like ‘oh dear’ and I am saying there was a prejudice in me, not just to the people but to the smells from her food. I had no idea what culture that was from, I just know, to my knowledge, it was very pungent. I said “oh wow”, and then after a few days I suppose you would say I got used to it, you know, and then I found it lovely hahah. And then about a week and a half after that she came to my home and she brought me a big bowl of something that she had made – rice and vegetables in it and it smelled so beautiful to me, you see, and my husband and I ate it, it was delicious.

What I’m sharing this for is because what was my first impression? My first impression, even without seeing her skin color, race, where she was from or anything, I didn’t like it. I didn’t care for how it smelled, and that’s just talking about fragrance. That’s not talking about how we dress, when we look different to each other, how when we speak it’s different from each other.

We have all these ways of being and interacting and sharing that are so soothing when they are within our tribe. When you’re with your people it soothes you. There are little nuances that you are accustomed to, there are little inside jokes that you’re accustomed to, there’s music that gets played that list you and temporarily takes you to your grandmother’s house; stories that your father has told you as a child, but it’s soothing. Familiarity is soothing. And this is what we look for. And what is happening right now is our world, our universe is asking us to find each other as soothing. We are being asked to truly look at each other as different but loveable, you see.

So, these tribal wars are so ancient in our DNA, we immediately get very, very unnerved and we don’t even know it. It looks like it’s about the color of skin; it looks like it’s about how their food smells; it looks like about how when they’re speaking their language, it’s you know, like how they’re speaking English, you see. I come from a family and we spoke Spanish, my dad and his people spoke Apache, you see. I learned English as my first language but I always heard other languages in the background, so when I go out into the world and hear other languages it’s not unnerving to me, but I can imagine how if you learn English and your mother and your grandmother and grandmother and grandmother always speak English, and your father and his father and fathers and fathers only speak English, and your aunts and if you ever only hear that, I can imagine that other languages would be unnerving.

So, in these tribal wars right now, what we want to do is remember it looks like it’s about the skin color, it looks like it’s about not understanding each other, but what it’s about is – we are offended by being asked to integrate, we’re offended by that and that’s cellular, that’s DNA, and I’m not excusing our actions right now, I’m not excusing them. And why does it look like our country of America that seems to be centering on black people, well we forget that the Indian people are already wiped out – the American Indians, so, and I’m not trying to bring or make trouble but we’re talking about tribal wars you see. And so the American Indians were wiped out, they were decimated and now they’re broken, they’re broken people, they’re a broken tribe.

So, now onto the black people, and I have to say ‘is it possible that the black people as a tribe refuse to be broken; is it possible that they also refuse to be integrated’ – I don’t know, I’m not a sociologist, I’m looking at this from energy, energy. And what I absolutely know is that right now we are all in sorrow, we are grieving. We are grieving as a nation, as a world because I know you and I have clients all over the world and they are writing me, and they are so sad; they feel sadness for what’s happening here in America, but it’s happening all over the world right now.

And peoples that have been really really tribal like Afghanistan for instance, they’re very still, very, very in their ancient tribal heritage; Iran – a very ancient tribal heritage; India – still, they call it the caste system but they’re very ancient in their tribal systems. You go to remote villages and they still have guidelines and rules that are hundreds of years old, you see.

So what we’re looking at right now is – what is happening in Europe, all of these ancient countries – Turkey, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq – they’re being broken up supposedly by our wars; they’re having to leave home, they’re trying to get into Greece, they’re trying to get into italy, they’re trying to get into Germany, they’re trying to get into all of these countries to relocate. England – they’re not being accepted, they don’t speak – Germans – they don’t speak English or they don’t speak French, we see. Then these tribes of these people, let’s say they’re from Turkey – they speak Turkish, so when they go to this new country, that’s the language they know for now; these are the food they know for now, this is the dress that for now they grew up with. To get integrated for them can be very, very costly and traumatic. That’s like taking you and me and having to see shekritter ladies, and I’m gonna say where’s my high-heels and you’re gonna say where’s my headphones haha, you know. It’s upsetting, it’s upsetting.

So right now what’s happening in the world energetically is – we are being asked, the energy is asking us to meld, the energy is asking us to come together, separately but together. And I guess what we’re forgetting, cause we’re not taught this in school, you will never find anyone like you, you are the only you, even within your tribe. And there are those like yourself, like myself that are a tribe and that we’ve caused certain upset within the tribe because we have deviated somewhat from the guidelines, have we not? So even within the tribes there are those who deviate and cause a certain unrest.

Well can you imagine when the entire tribe is asked to deviate, and to do it new, and to accept new. We are not accustomed to accepting new; we are accustomed to what we are accustomed to. It sounds like I’m repeating myself but one thing I do know is, that’s being posted, and many people said “Oh I couldn’t watch it, I couldn’t bring myself to watch it”. I didn’t want to watch it but I watched it, and I watched it because I didn’t want to use the privilege of having a button to push and say “Oh I want to be able to sleep tonight; oh I don’t want this image in my mind”. I can do that even if, I call myself cinnamon – I’m brown-red, so meanwhile I’m a cinnamon person I still have a certain privilege right now that I can push a button and not watch that you see. Now I watched it because that to me is not a black brother, that to me is a brother, and he’s suffering, and there are other brothers there that had a part in his suffering, and I’m a part of that.

So what can I do at this point Sahara? The most important thing to do is just to acknowledge that we don’t suffer. Those of us who don’t suffer need to acknowledge that we don’t suffer and people are not willing to see that no matter what their color, and I’m colored, I have a color. My husband is a pink person, I’m not you see.

But I do have to say have I really ever felt prejudice because of my skin, because I’m Mexican, because I’m Apache – No. I have felt prejudice as a woman. I haven’t even felt prejudice because of my age, but as a woman I have felt prejudice, and that’s interesting don’t you think? Not for my color, not for my age but as a woman. I have known prejudice, you see.

So there is always going to be a place in everybody’s heart that we scare you, I scare you, you scare me. I don’t soothe you, you make me uneasy. And so right now, what I am doing is I am praying that we can begin to feel the pain in a way that we just want to settle in and calm ourselves and open up to change. Open up, I pray, I say: “Please open me up to change” because what does that mean, what does that change mean? I don’t know. I don’t know what it means, but a drastic change has to come where we accept and we’re willing to accept; to be loving and kind and inclusive.

I mean when we stop and think about it, Sahara, to think that we have military, we have trained these people to kill, and we send them to other countries to kill, to kill! I mean that’s insane, and it’s completely acceptable, it’s completely acceptable and it has gotten to the part that God bless the police in the sense that those who are kind and good and believe in what they’re doing, and there’s those that are up to no good, because I have to say right now, I have to say that it seems to be happening to men, I have to say – that just last night when I was pondering that we we’re gonna be speaking, I realized, you know what, that I’m afraid if something happens if my sons get pulled over, not because of color, but what if they get a policeman that’s not a kind policeman, what if they get a policeman with a mindset unlike those who have gone into the police force to be of service to humanity, and it’s the first time in my life that I’ve thought that way. First time in my life where I thought “Wow I have to look at this, I have to feel a little bit of fear if my boys are out and they get pulled over”. They’re profiling people of your color and where you come from, not you personally but your tribe, you know. They’re always profiled. There’s a fear that has us.

Now shamanically let’s look at what is this fear. Why was I afraid of new smells? Ok, something very simple, the food was cooking, it was summer, it lafted over and the first thing that I got was “Oh, what’s that, what’s that?” Why was that..? That’s fear because I got on alert, I didn’t go “Oh wow, what’s that? I went “What’s that!?, you see. My spine got stiff, I got ready, was looking around, and what scared me about smell, smell, something different – the smelling you see. I looked at it and thought “Ohh ok”, it’s just that I’m accustomed to certain fragrances some people are cooking, I’ve never had that fragrance wet before, I realize now it’s called saffron, and my body instantly went into reptilian-brain and got ready for quite a flight. It’s that simple, it’s that simple. My body did what it’s supposed to do and it got ready to fight for flight, simply from saffron floating through my windows.

So if that can happen to me, an educated woman, a kind woman, an open-minded woman, over my neighbors cooking, can you imagine what other people feel in terms of fear and anger. How can we kill somebody; how can we willfully kill somebody? It’s fear. It’s absolute fear.

So now, to all of you that are listening, be with, if you don’t use the word ‘pray’ then be with, ask for, petition, allow, that your energies become more accustomed to ‘different’. That ‘different’ actually becomes a curiosity, that ‘different’ drives us forth, that ‘different’ allows us to new brain cells to be activated, that diversity helps us to grow and glow, that ‘different’ soothes, soothes, because it tickles our imagination. I wonder what that is, what is that?

One thing I can say about the ladies who wear the scarves on the heads, the Muslim ladies, I’ve always wondered how they keep it up cause whenever I put a scarf on, it always slips off my hair you know. And I asked a lady one time, and she said they have this little pad thing and they put it on and they put the scarf on and it keeps the scarf on top of the hair because the hair is so soft and it would slip off, you see. That’s great, she educated me, she educated me. My curiosity, I was respectful when I asked her, and she could feel my respect and curiosity when I asked her and she was very open to answering my question, you see. She was happy to help me understand how she dresses and how she keeps the scarf on her head, on her hair, because her hair is so silky.

So what I’m saying then is let’s let diversity inspire us, not intimidate us.


Hmm. I love that, and also if we look at, historically, ‘divide’ and ‘conquer’, it has been the biggest political strategy. I know that in Iran and the Middle East, that is exactly what the British colonialists have done and making the Shia’s and Sunni’s, the two sects of Islam, fight so much against each other that instead of focusing on the oppressor, it’s a battle between Saudi Arabia and Iran and everyone’s taking sides. And they’ve done this in every part of the world. Sometimes I can see how they can be perpetuating in narrative that ‘if you’re black, you’re going to die’, a using a very real, very racist, very wrong thing to perpetuate more fear and more division, and just looking at how this has been the plan in every single country that has been colonized. How do you see this being used against us today?


Fear! The word is fear! I don’t want to deviate too much about the coronavirus, I don’t want to go into all the statistics too much ok, but there have always been illnesses and there have always been people dying from illnesses. I have great suspicions as to why this illness is important when it comes to us dying. I have a particular suspicion about the fear that is being perpetuated through this coronavirus, ok. And absolutely, it’s not like I said, about the black, the white, the pink, the yellow and green, it’s about perpetuating fear. The only way you can control is through fear, and the only way we can live is through community. In the beginning these tribal systems began to reinforce community (like I mentioned), and reinforce being able to thrive, ok.

Now, whoever took over, and yes, it looks like the white people took over, but let’s say whoever took over, wants to stay in power and they can only stay in power by ruling, and how do we rule? We rule through fear. We do, we divide, we call the herd and then we take the weak ones, and those are the ones we can manipulate the easiest you see. So it’s all about fear. So when I say I pray at night, I pray to have my heart opened, and my mind and my soul open me to diversity wherever there is a place in me that is afraid of something new – shine a light on that so fear cannot live in me. I don’t want fear to be able to live in me, I don’t want fear to be able to have even one little toe-hole in my being, because it is about our communities now – are being divided – who’s wearing the mask, who’s not wearing the mask. And now they’re saying if you’re not wearing the mask it’s not about you, it’s about protecting your neighbor. If my neighbor needs to stay home, I’ll bring his groceries to him.

So what is happening now, I really, really feel, they have chosen the black people. What I hear also is the Asian people are being chosen because of having supposedly brought over all of those viruses, and I heard that their community has also started to feel threatened. I know that the Muslims and Hindus, since 9/11, have had their threatening years, ok. Do you see the word ‘threat, threat’, that’s to live in insecurity, to live in a way that you’re afraid, afraid to go to sleep, you’re afraid of who you’re speaking to, you’re afraid of what you’re going to say. You’re constantly measuring your energy output. So shamanically what we’re saying is – you are life, you are going to have to express yourself. Right now we’re all indignant, what happened to a human is not ok; it is not just that he is a black male. Human! He is a human first, and we as humans must stand up for one another because to be mistreated for any reason, mistreated, is not acceptable.

And so what we want to do, is we want to maintain our energy so that we are proactive in the way that you don’t even want to go into rage and anger, because that fogs your clarity. When you go into even too much sadness, your clarity leaves you. We need our clarity right now so that we can have our compassion, our nurturing available and then know what to do, and how to gather perhaps, and talk peacefully – this is not ok. There are more of us than there are of them. And what we want to be is ‘we’, not ‘us’ and ‘them’, we want ‘we’ and within that ‘we’ there is all these ‘I’s’ – that’s the diversity. Everyone has something to offer and it has nothing to do with the color of their skin!


Well this is the thing that, and this is very controversial and I don’t have an answer for this at all, I have definitely experienced a lot of racism and racial profiling, especially after 9/11, so I completely understand that, and just being in the spiritual world for the past 10 years or so has also opened me to different perspectives, so the controversy lies in. I understand wanting to be around people that only look like you. I have done that you know. I grew up mostly surrounded by white people and I felt like an outsider and the moment I went to college I’m like “put me around all the brown people” because I felt more at home. And then, as I shifted I realized that I don’t need to be only around people who look exactly like me because there are so many different people that, that doesn’t have to be my only unifier.




I’m seeing that people’s only first response is let’s only be around people that look like us’ and stuff like this, and I understand it creating more division. And I’m wondering if there even is a right way to go about this because I see the spiritual bypass saying color doesn’t exist, we’re all humans, we’re all one race, “I don’t even see color”, that’s what a lot of spiritual white people say “I don’t see color, I didn’t even notice you were a person of color”, and that’s coming from their privilege, but also understanding the perspective of – if only black people come from, and only Hispanic people, Persian people and only this and only that. Are we moving forward? So, I would love to hear your perspective on this.


Yeah. No, we’re not moving forward, we’re not moving forward, and the first thing – hey, let’s talk about spiritual people. I mean who’s that gentleman J.P. Spears, I love him, I love him because he says it so perfectly. Spiritual people have to be, you always know a spiritual person by what they drink and what they say, how they dress and what would you call them? I call them routines. No, the moment someone discovers something, they create a niche, they create a click, they create a division, instead of taking it forth and sharing and not naming it.

Why do I have to name what I do, which is usually why I laugh you know. I’m not a healer, I’m not a teacher, I’m a mentor. What I really consider myself is I’m a rememberer ok. But yes, you’re absolutely correct. And you and I are not sociologists, we’re talking about this from an energetic level and what we do though from this part is taught to us, we are taught to create clicks, we are taught to create, I don’t think we go about it to make division, but we definitely go about to created soothed. We definitely are seeking safety. We definitely are that. And we end up creating – and what’s the buzz word today – Tribes! I found my tribe. No, no, don’t include me in your tribe, please don’t include me in your tribe. I am an energy, you’re an energy, and however we can function together and uphold each other, sustain each other and assist each other in a tribe. Even this thing with women in power, empowering women – another click, another way to create division in a way that – what about women who don’t have the economic resources to even own a computer. How are they going to be in on these things?

So yes, it has everything to do with, we really, really need to look at the way we want to be safe and we want to be soothed in the process. We want to be safe and we want to be soothed. And anything different that doesn’t assist in that, we don’t want anything to do with, which is why we’re looking for our place within these clicks.


But I see within this spiritual community, and this is again a very controversial topic, but we’ll go more into it, this topic of cultural appropriation. And this topic that a lot of white people never felt they were a part of this tribe, like they don’t have their rituals, their routines, their grandparents telling them things, they feel vanilla, they feel blah..


They are! But the reason they are, and God bless them, because they are the ones that decimated them. They did have that, they did have the Celtic, what would you call them, the agnostic..


Agnosticism, yes.


Yes. The Germans had all of their different rituals and ceremonies.




Yes, they had that. They had that and they were the first ones to begin to erase it. They were the first ones that began to erase this systematically, systematically. And then they went out from white countries and they systematically, and what’s the first thing they do is they take away the religions or make the religions fight. It’s the first thing they do, you see. Yes. Are they vanilla? Yes, they’re vanilla. They were the first ones that decimated whatever holy they had to life.


But I think the people today feel like ‘well, I wasn’t the one who did that, I feel very sorry that my ancestors did that to people’s ancestors, but I feel like I don’t belong and then they learn about shamanic practices, they learn about Sufism, they learn about all these different things and they might resonate you know with yoga, Ayahuasca, with something. And then this topic comes on of ‘are you culturally appropriating by practicing rituals, practices from another culture’ and again I see both sides, I’d love to know for you as a shaman, who grew up in the Apache and Toltec tradition, do you see a white person learning that cultural appropriation?


I see that they happen to be quiet this time. I see that this life they have green eyes, very light skin, blonde/brown hair and I see there’s something within them – they’re resonating once again. Once again is resonating and finding solace, but finding a beautiful connection through whatever rituals or religions that they are led to. I don’t see it as cultural appropriation, what I do feel is, the appropriation part – No. I feel they are led to it, it’s coming out – this time they’re white.


And that’s the rainbow prophecy that you know, the native and indigenous people that were killed would come back in all colors of the rainbow to bring the traditions back. But there are a lot of people, especially from indigenous and native cultures who feel strongly against it being practiced by white people, especially because it was illegal to do these practices until 1965, and they feel like ‘now that it’s legal, suddenly everyone’s diving into it, monetizing it, branding themselves as an expert for it when for example, traditionally Paula Santo was gifted to you by a shaman. It’s not something that you buy with a five-pack of your rose quartz.


Right. Yes.


It’s like this really tricky thing of the remembrance of our lifetimes in these cultures; these practices coming back and how beautiful it is that it’s becoming mainstream and can anything become mainstream without business being created around it?


Well, this is the other part because what my message is, I’d say message today, is – it’s about energy, it’s not about creating another niche. And so, when we’re looking at cultural appropriation – I will say that for instance – like the Ayahuasca, and I heard some people talking “Oh yeah, we’re do it every weekend; I got this shaman that’s helping us every weekend, every other weekend and for two or three months,” and I’m like “Oh shit! Oh my God. Are you serious?” The appropriation part is the disrespect – to me – the disrespect and hypocrisy.

Now, now, that’s the appropriation, because when true elders, true people, true shamans (if they are the healer let’s say), when they are really doing what their culture calls them to do – it is sacred. It is sacred, and it is something that is not learned overnight. I mean, I was in training with my grandmother, my father, with Miguel, and then I don’t talk about this other part, but I’m trained as a high priestess. That was 10 years for that, there was 10 years with Miguel, there was my lifetime with my dad till he died. It’s not this thing where I see these people on social media and they’re shamans and they travel to the upper world, and the middle world, and the lower world. You know what, they don’t know what they’re talking about. There’s hypocrisy there. Or the yoga people, I can’t tell you how many workshops I’ve had, and my yoga people are the ones that are the most fucked up. They can’t sit still, their backs hurt, their shoulders, their bodies, and the lives they live. We have to be able to support what we say by how we live, how we live.

So, when I say I’m supporting known niches, I’m supporting a life that’s transparent. I am supporting a life – you can come in and look at my marriage; you can come in and look at my relationship with my family, you can come in and look at my home, and you’re going to find what I say you’re going to find.


I think the issue is a lot of people want that; that they so wished they had a father, a grandfather or a teacher to pass longer the knowledge, but they don’t because there isn’t a form of mystery school that we once had for so long. So, they’re feeling like the only place they have access to is a three-week online program, and because they feel so alone, they just start practicing with whatever they can.

How do you think we can learn about these practices in a way that is in pure integrity with the culture?


Well, what I have done is – I’ve taken it away from culture, because we started talking about the tribes, and the tribes were very specialized to keep their different specialties alive. It was necessary at the time. What I have done with all my work is – I’ve trimmed all of that when it comes to the superstition, even with psychology. I’ve gotten rid of the psychological terms. I use the term ‘Mr Potato Head’, I use the term ‘you know what you know’, so what I’ve tried to do is say “It is sacred to live”, because all of these practices and mystery. You know what, I’m qualified to open a mystery school, I’m qualified, and you know what – it would be a 10-year program.


Sign me up!


It would be a 10-year program. It would be a program that called for absolute devotion – not to me, not to me – but to your desire, your desire to live purely, purely, and what does that mean? That means without hesitation; without any kind of presentation; without prejudice. You’re not stupid, but you’re living from the moment and your eyes are open and wide awake and you can feel life coursing through you. And in that moment, you make a choice based on clarity. So these rituals that you’re talking about, we have to remember the peoples in those days that needed the rituals, needed the stones, needed the little bag around their necks; or the tinctures that they went to, or to the witches (and I use that in a very positive way). These people didn’t have doctors, they didn’t have dentists you see, so truly plant medicine, and I mean tinctures, exacting dandelions, things like that, were very, very necessary for the help of humanity.

Nowadays, what health do we need? We need spiritual health, we need to connect our mind to our heart, and so when you said (and I love it when you said “they don’t have grandparents, they don’t have parents, they don’t have that history”). And I’m saying where we are now as a planet. God bless people – the Aborigines and all the people that are still the very, very original-type medicine. But even that has to shift. It has to shift to … – like you’ve done with the Goddesses. And you and I spoke about how some people were a little bit offended, but what you’ve done is, you’ve taken the superstition…


And the religious aspects of them.


Yes! And you’re making it something that people can embrace energetically; to assist their energy; to take this Goddess and to call the Goddess so energetically so that she can imbue you and your energy with a certain strength, or a certain softness, or a certain understanding, so she can imbue you. So, this is the work I do. Am I qualified to do ritual and ceremony? Yes, yes! I’m qualified to open a mystery school, but what I would rather do is bring this change, change its format and say – live purely, stop lying! Don’t say “Oh, I’m not a racist.” – I’m a racist! – you know why – the fragrance of my friend’s cooking scared me.

That’s what we need to admit to. So the cultural appropriation – they are not qualified to, even with the best of intentions, they are not qualified to do them. It’s a sham! It’s a sham! And even with the yoga – the way it’s being done and monetized – it’s a sham, it’s a sham! If we would call it exercise, they’re right on! Because these lovely men and women that do these beautiful poses and postures and asanas; the way they can elongate their body and pull the light into their body and raise the hell – that’s what we’re talking about. But in terms of how and are they living their life in order – No, no.


I think where it gets tricky, and a lot of people think, first of all, “who am I to change things?”, right? “Who am I to have an opinion on anything?” And it brings up a lot of imposter syndrome thing. And also, as you mentioned, that these practices do need to change with the population. For example, yoga – I think, having studied yoga in India, it was completely different than I thought. There was no movement, you were just breathing and I thought “What! I want to do back-bends and all of these things”, and I understand it, I respect it.

I’m sitting all day in my life here, so that is why the population today does need something that might look more like exercise, because that’s what they need. So, I think the tricky part comes of “how can we adhere these practices for a way to really benefit what our needs are in this present moment” which is constantly changing while paying homage and respect to how they traditionally were, and then I also think that different people play different roles.


Yes, and the homage and the respect is a part we don’t want to lose. We don’t want to lose the respect; we don’t want to lose the honor of where this comes from. So let’s talk about yoga – yeah, yoga – it’s all about breathing, yes; and the asanas – they would take one asana for years and years and years – one asana. I know you know that, so what we forget though Sahara, is why, why are we doing these practices; why do we want these rituals and ceremonies in our life; why will they book a session with me and yourself; why? The ‘why’ is living our life now. Living our life! Even when I went through a certain mystery school, I did, I did, you know, It always had to be integrated, integrated, integrated. So many people start this work and I say, for three reasons Sahara.

They start the work – Number 1: to get a relationship, to heal a relationship or to get out of a relationship. Number 2: They’re information junkies. Number 3: They want to look spiritual; they want to look good; they want to look like they’re on the cut of the leading edge of everything. And those are the three reasons that people generally come into this work. I will even say, being that I was reared this way, but when I really got serious about it, I wanted to save my marriage, my first marriage, it was all about “Please God, give me the strength to just be able to stay here until he can shift so that we can remain married”. Yes, I used all my tools to make me strong to remain in a marriage. Yes, even I came from one of these three directions. Then, hopefully, you begin to realize it’s your life, your clearing and clarifying. It’s your life, your life force. So, I absolutely believe they have to change. The superstitions have to change. They do. Everything is asking to evolve, all I’m requesting is that no matter what practice you take on, to do it knowing you change.

You and I were chuckling just as we started and I said “Everybody wants their life to change”, they don’t want to change you see. And I’m saying in any practice, any practice, let it affect you, let it take you to the next level of self-expression, and in that moment – then you are honoring; then you are paying homage to it in its original form. Its very original form. Yes, I can see how people want… – we crave ritual, we crave ceremony, and it’s very necessary in its own way.

I would love to have more ceremonies because they’re transitional points. We don’t have transitional points right now. Very few. Marriage, maybe, but then that’s been made into ‘how big is your ring’; so we are looking as a family of man; as a family of man. We are looking for that place where we can come together in our diversity. So I absolutely, absolutely agree with you the rituals, all the ways of being, must change with us. That’s why I don’t talk about the Toltec, I don’t talk about the shaman. I talk about what is your life; I take it into everyday language, everyday language so that people can incorporate it.


And I think we need that diversity of the people who will be the scholars of certain cultures, and the people who are here to create their own versions of it. And everything in between, because you know, different lifetimes are about different things, and ours are “We’re here to be revolutionaries, but another instance of our lifetime could be really studying the way things were, being a historian etc.

So, I think it’s honoring the call, and lastly, what suggestions do you have for people? Because I have some friends who are white and they receive a lot of hatred and feedback around them practicing shamanic or any type of spiritual thing that comes from a cultural background. And it can be very confusing for them because they don’t know is it “should I only stick to Celtic things if I’m white: am I culturally appropriating by being in other cultures” (though they are doing it with integrity). What advice would you have for someone who is in that situation?


I would say, for them personally, to look at why are they drawn to what they’re practicing, first of all. Why are they drawn to that? What is it about what they practice that fulfills them, that brings them joy and peace? I feel very strongly that we are led to what brings us joy, and once again, the people that are getting offended are the people of color.

Let’s say, especially when, I know, with the head-dresses, the Apaches, we didn’t have these elaborate head-dresses; not in my tribe. That’s more Sioux – the plains Indians. And I can see why they get angry, but I personally feel a lot of it has to be let go.

When the girls wear cornrows and then the blacks get offended; when people put feathers in their hair and then the American Indians get offended – the different areas of offence, let’s call it. So for these people who are practicing various ways of being that we’re traditionally to a certain tribe, I say – if they’d been led to it, then they really have to investigate; they really have to begin to understand it from the core of its beginning, and do they? Do they? So that in the shifts they are making, that it doesn’t look like they know what they’re doing. They have to come from a place of humility, they have to come from a place understanding that this is so much older than any of their lifetimes; and they’re being led to it. God bless them.

But they can never ever let go of the honor and the way you do it with your Rose Gold Goddesses. There is such honor, there’s such a playfulness, and a shift. You’ve shifted it from how it’s traditionally held. But I see when you put things up that there’s a playfulness, and there’s an honoring, and there’s an understanding, and you always link it back to, and you give homage, you pay homage to the forefathers, to the ancestors. It’s like taking music and having hip-hop and then the grandma over here is listening to Charleston, but it’s still music; it’s still music.

So, I would say to them – just don’t forget its ancientness as you modernize it. And I feel a lot of times that’s where, even other people can feel, even if they don’t know anything about it, but energetically, we’re energetic bodies, they will feel an unrest; they’ll feel a little embarrassment; they’ll feel embarrassed for whoever is doing the ritual, the practice. And what they are actually feeling is a lack of honor; a lack of respect; a lack of really knowing the foundations of what they’re presenting in the new way.


I love that. Giving it honor but also knowing that you are called to the work for a reason.


Aha. Absolutely, absolutely. You are called to the work. You are feeling toward that work. I always like to say “you don’t see me lamenting that I didn’t become a prima ballerina; it had never even occurred to me to take ballet lessons”. That’s how I say it to my clients – it never occurred to me to take ballet lessons. And yet there are other boys and girls, that all their life, who couldn’t wait to afford to take those ballet lessons.

So no matter what we’re called to, we are called to it. I firmly believe that. And you and I spoke about purpose, a purpose – you give yourself purpose according to what you’re called to.


So beautifully said. Well, thank you so much Tatyana for your wisdom, again, for your spur of the moment. It’s the conversation that so many people are trying to have alone in their minds and I think who are afraid to talk about this type of stuff because it is so polarizing and emotional, especially right now. So thank you for bringing your clarity and your wisdom so we can all dive deeper into our own, our own mindset around these issues.


Thank you, and that you for the wonderful questions. That’s what I love about you. You have a sharp mind and you can sympathize everything, and you can come up with these great questions. So, thank you.


Aww. Well I think we all have these questions. So what makes this podcast and speaking to people so amazing is you’re able to go into them. And I think so many people right now, especially in the spiritual space, are deflecting them. It’s too much, they don’t want to talk about it because they don’t know what the answer is and neither of us know the complete answer, but what I love about your wisdom is you’re looking at it from this energetic perspective instead of getting so lost in the semantics, which is what our views want us to do.


Absolutely. And now, now we’re being asked to melt together and that’s frightening. We’re being asked to come together and it’s very, very frightening. It doesn’t soothe us, it’s different, and all these other things are a result. So, let us ask our self, everyday – open me up more and more and more to different and to relishing different.


So beautifully said. Thank you again for being on the podcast.


Thank you. Bye baby-doll.

How amazing was that conversation with Tatyana Rae. What I love about her is she is not afraid of tackling the big conversations that most are afraid of; most just don’t want to get into; they don’t want to say the wrong thing or be it off-brand.

I want you guys to know that a lot of people that I know, who are in positions of influence, are having a really, really tough time right now vocalizing because they don’t want to say the wrong thing, and they’re choosing to not say anything because they are so afraid of saying the wrong thing; and not saying anything, being silent is even worse.

So, know that if you’re afraid of having this conversation, that it’s better to just start it and make mistakes and learn along your way than not to have it at all and pretend it’s not here. We have to look at these things. We have to go inwards. We have to question. We have to spark the conversation. Otherwise, we’re just going to remain stuck in our judgments around it.

So, in Rose Gold Goddesses, this is the community that I’ve created exactly for that spiritual discussions on all levels, whether it is the racism that is happening today and has been; whether it is spiritual awakenings; anything that is assisting you, elevating you, inspiring you. This is your place to hop the conversation, so come, join us in Rose God Goddesses—the link is rosegoldgoddesses.com over in the show notes and I am soul excited to meet you inside.

If you loved this episode, I would love to send you a free gift which is the first half of my unreleased book Eat Right for Your Mind Body Type. This is a different book than EatFeelFresh. My first book ever which is not released anywhere, and I’m gifting it exclusively to those who leave a review of my podcast in the iTunes store. So all you gotta do is head over to the iTunes store where you’re maybe listening to this podcast and leave a review, take a screenshot that you’ve left it and email it over to me at [email protected] and I will send you the first half of my unreleased book Eat Right for Your Mind Body Type, which goes all the way into Ayurveda, Doshas, plant-based nutrition, and body types – all of the things in a really fun and engaging way. So this is my gift to you for supporting the podcast. Every single review I personally read. It really helps the podcast be listened to by more people so that we can raise the vibration of the planet together, and I am soul grateful to have you on this journey.

Thank you so much for listening and I’ll see you on the next episode. Namaste.

Episode 292: Racial Issues from a Shamanic Perspective with Tatyana Rae

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